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+--- Thread: Cigar Zin (/thread-9634.html)
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- Thomas - 10-08-1999
A joint? Have I missed something? Not familiar with that word...............never know who is monitoring these boards.
- n144mann - 10-08-1999
Well Curmy dear, you are right...everyone has a right to smoke if they wish, have family members who do, and close friends who do...but NOT in my house, or around my children. If you want to kill yourself on my deck or in my yard...go for it. <grin>
As for the joint, Curmy....shame on you for even bringing it up. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Nancy
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 10-08-99).]
- Bucko - 10-08-1999
If you want to kill yourself on my deck or in my yard...go for it. <grin>
*************
Sorry, but there is no medical evidence to support that occasional cigar smoking is detrimental to health. Second-hand smoke hazards have been taking it in the shorts lately as well........
Bucko
- Jason - 10-09-1999
Bucko - Thank you for injecting some reason in to this conversation. All to often the occasional cigar smoker is lumped into the same crowd that is addicted to cigs and smoke 2 packs a day. There is a distinction.
- n144mann - 10-09-1999
Gee guys...loosen up!!!!! I was just kidding around.
Is there a distinction...of course there is....similar to one having a drink with dinner or being an alcoholic. However, I have yet to see medical evidence saying that they (cigars) do anything good for you...unlike wine. ( now is your chance Bucko..point it out to me...grin)
We all know it is a personal choice. It is your right to enjoy them, my personal right to ask you to do it outside, or refuse to smoke them. I, in no way meant to offend, or come across as wanting to take that right away from anyone.
As far as second hand smoke...that is not my reason for wanting the smoking to be done outside bucko....I simply do not enjoy the smell. I find it rather offensive. Some pipe tobacco I love......but have yet to find a cigar that smells good to me.
Nancy
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 10-09-99).]
- Thomas - 10-09-1999
In any event, cigars (lit) and wine does not a pair make...
- Jerry D Mead - 10-09-1999
For the record, I'm more tolerant than my previous post might indicate. All three of my dumb kids and two of my grandkids smoke (even though their mother and grandfather died of lung cancer...and dad is on oxygen)...and I don't make them leave the room...though admittedly they try to be considerate of old dad/granddad.
I really do believe in individual rights...even when they're stupid. But then I'd legalize ALL drugs.
Curmy
- Bucko - 10-09-1999
But then I'd legalize ALL drugs.
Curmy
*************
Have the kids stand a little closer to your O2 tank.........} [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
- n144mann - 10-09-1999
Legalize all drugs??? Oh man curmy...what a bag of snakes that would be!! Spend a couple of nights in the ER honey....it will change your mind. I saw way WAY too many young and otherwise healthy kids in there due to illegal drugs....it is heart breaking!!
Nancy
- Thomas - 10-09-1999
Nancy, Nancy, Nancy, those kids are in the ER because the drugs are illegal -- remember Prohibition and wood alcohol?
I am with the Curm on this one. Legal drugs would eliminate the criminals, create purity and likely reduce the forbidden-fruit quality of drug abuse.
- Jason - 10-09-1999
If we could get this far off on a tangent from a bottle of Zin, imagine what we could do with a first growth.
- n144mann - 10-09-1999
I disagree with you on this one foodie. As an original rebel myself....one who lived to break the rules, and still likes to at times [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]....I can understand that arguement....but I think it is a grand simplification of a much more complicated issue.
Get rid of the ciminals?? Get real honey....there is always going to be a black market for drugs. WAY too much money involved for it to be any other way.
Making the drugs legal is NOT going to solve the problem. In my opinion, the forbiddeness issue plays a small role in the drug use of todays kids. Todays kids are expected to carry unbelievable loads compared to years past....they are learing in jr high things that used to be taught in high school and college, they are expected to be mature and able to handle adult issues (sex, parenthood, jobs, school)things that are well beyond their maturity and stress levels, and are being expected to do it without the proper parental/authoritative guidance. Look at the statisics... depression and suicide are high, many of our youth are a mess, and looking for something or someone (drugs and gangs etc) to escape into and find the support they crave. It is a complicated issue, and my statement here is also a simplification..but I don't think making drugs legal will solve the problem.
Based on my own experiences with drugs in my high school and college years...10 years ago give or take a year or two....I think having the drugs legalized would have made it more popular in the crowd I ran with. There are always those attracted to the forbidden fruit thing...but for each of those, there were a couple who were curious, but because it was illegal, and because they had a lot to lose if they got busted, they abstained from trying it. If it were legal that stigma would have been removed, and of my crowd anyway (upper middle class-college educated types)...there would have been a lot more experimentation. Just my opinion based on my own experiences.
Nancy
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 10-09-99).]
- n144mann - 10-09-1999
Man...that became quite an epistle, sorry guys!! I am the mother of a teenage daughter, and someone who has worked with the kids at the schools....as you can tell...drug use is a subject I have strong feelings about!
You are right Jason...just imagine where we could go with a first growth. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Nancy
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 10-09-99).]
- Jerry D Mead - 10-10-1999
Man do I want to carry this discussion further, but I was bad to get it started in the first place and I'm supposed to be a moderator...so I'll bite my tongue and hope we get back to talking wine.
JDM
P.S. I do have to add that I really resent spending money to keep pot smokers in prison longer than folks committing violent crimes against persons.
- n144mann - 10-10-1999
Well JDM...I knew that would get you going... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] The main reason I chose that particular arguement from the many available.
And...I do have to admit, as I presented it, it has some major flaws.
But, you are right Curmy....this is not the place to debate this. Even if it was, it is something we could debate eternally. It is a complicated issue that crosses too many cultural and economic lines, giving some validity to almost every argument that can be made.
With that in mind, I will only respond to your comment on prison time. I certainly do not think lengthy prison time is warranted for an occasional pot smoker..in fact, I don't think prison time is warranted period. I am with you in thinking that our justice system...and I use the term justice loosely....is a joke these days. Personal responsibility has been eliminated, and violent offenders walk free after a slap on the hands. Makes no sense!!
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 10-10-99).]
- Thomas - 10-10-1999
Nancy,
I entered high school in 1960. In my Brooklyn neighborhood we already had a decade-long drug problem by then. I reject the notion that today's youths are any different than in my youth. I accept the possibility, however, of spillover. Now that drugs and teenage crime have spilled out of poor city streets and into suburban and even rural communities, now it is an American problem.
It was a problem in the fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties. In fact, drug use was a problem in the twenties and thirties when it was legal albeit, it was adults then. Nancy, if alcohol prohibition created criminals, and Repeal removed them (except for the three tier operators, of course) then why would it be any different with narcotics or stimulants, which incidentally many, many, many adults already take legally.
We cannot legislate morality and government cannot make people stop wanting medication for their ills. Families and communities have to take that responsibility. The best government can do is to reduce crime, legalizing would remove a good part of the reason for criminals to engage in drug traffic.
- Jerry D Mead - 10-10-1999
Here's an idea....since alcohol does get lumped with drugs by government and media...and since the trend seems to be to treat alcohol abusers almost the same as drug users...there may be some justification to discuss "zero tolerance" for drugs since society is moving toward treating ethanol the same.
So let's move it to "Rants & Raves."