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+--- Thread: 2001 Allegrini Volpolicella Classico (/thread-7911.html)
- Botafogo - 04-22-2003
Hoisted on his own petard? I'm on to you now: You were captain of your highschool debate team and just like to argue. Here is Steve saying EXACTLY what I have been saying:
"Must, must, must alert you and anyone else who cares to the 1997 Seghesio Barolo "La Villa". My Gawd, what a beautiful bottle of wine. I poured it for a British symphony conductor - a guy who has a basement full pricey Bordeaux and Burgundy at home - at my restaurant and he swooned, saying it compared with some of the very best Paulliac and Margaux he had ever tasted. >>>> WARNING: Italians may say this is not a typical Barolo. Agreed. I'm just saying it's a splendid job of winemaking, not a classic, representative Barolo.<<<"
Which, according to any fair interpretation of the meaning and intent of DOCG rules means it is not a Barolo at all. One of our Italian customers summed it up perfectly with this:
"Roberto, its-a easy...If-a you girlfriend like-a the wine, its-a not-a real Barolo. It may be from-a Barolo but thats-a not-a Barolo like my Grandfather likes!"
- Kcwhippet - 04-22-2003
SB, I thought you said you were an actor and a wine consultant to a number of Seattle restaurants, too. BTW, I'm on the East coast, and we travel up and down the East coast frequently. Where are your restaurants? I'll have to drop in when I'm in the vicinity of one of them.
- wondersofwine - 04-22-2003
Like a bridge over troubled waters I will lay me down...a lot of fine wine and sooth ruffled feathers with the drink of the Gods.
- randery - 04-22-2003
Holy diatribe, Batman!
- stevebody - 04-23-2003
I haven't drunk a cup of coffee in well over 20 years and I write exhaustively in the hope that clarity may result. And, after all this, and all the sore toes, STILL NO ONE has supplied what the heck you're all talking about when you talk about the regional characteristics of the wines you mention. I'm STILL waiting for someone to cough up what this regional character of Chianti is that was so freakin' vital to defend. I promise you I can tell you exactly what I think a traditional Chianti is supposed to taste like. I sample well over 2000 wines a year and I encounter quite a few different ones, so the trad ones really sorta stand out. And, NO, Foodie, that baloney about wanting to know what it was about Randery's "un-Chianti" that he didn't like, well, that dog don't hunt. If you had intended to ask what it was he found "un-Chianti-like" about it, why not just ask that? The question was, quoting directly, "Help me out: Why would you want a Chianti that's un-Chianti?" I dont' have to read anything into that. It's fairly plain.
As for commercial wines, here's what's in my tableside cabinet for immediate consumption:
Sean Thackery Orion and Pleiades
Kalin Semillion
Sand Hill Cabernet
Noon Shiraz
Peter Lehmann Stonewell Shiraz
McCrae Cuvee Orleans
Librandi Gravello
Il Borro
Castel Pietraio Tegrimo
Bruno Giacosa Arneis and Barolo
Domaine les Pallieres Gigondas
Eric Rostaing Cote Rotie and Condrieu
Ste. Grillet Condrieu
Parce Collioure
Flor de Pingus
Alvaro Palacios Les Terrasses Priorato
That's shelves one and two. Closest thing to a commercial blockbuster in the lot is the Lehmann. I post commercial wines because the website goes all over the world and those are the wines most likely to be generally accessible.
If you guys are gonna get your noses out of joint every time I call one of you on something, I predict a lot of joint problems. Here's a suggestion: If you think I'm an idiot, IGNORE ME. But this business of people constantly gigging some newbie on this site for expressing something like the "un-Chianti" idea calls for a challenge. Demands one, in fact. Why would you want a Chianti that doesn't taste like a Chianti?
None of your business.
- Kcwhippet - 04-23-2003
Steve,
No one had to defend anything, let alone the character of Chianti, until you jumped in with another of your excessively long, confrontational posts. Randery said he had a Chianti recommended by you that was unchianti like. Foodie simply asked why he would want a Chianti that is un-Chianti. Randery then responded that it does not taste like the harsh and rough Chiantis of his youth. The statement was made, the question was asked and answered. For all intents and purposes, the thread is over - then you jumped in. Let the games begin! Give it a rest, dude.
- scimmiatinit - 04-23-2003
"un Chianti dovrebbe essere fiore e terra, con qualche bagliore di amarena, forse, ma soprattutto fiore e terra.
Dovrebbe essere dritto e schietto, serpigno, schivo e anche un po' ignorante. Un signore dal bel gesto asciutto senza giri di parole, di una sua stilizzata eleganza.
E poi, quando potrà sedersi in poltrona, per riposarsi di questa sua tensione, dovrebbe accarezzarti con piccoli sbuffi di dolceacre tabacco e farti intravedere vaghe tentazioni nostalgiche di funghi e terriccio.
Fidato nelle tavolate, ma sempre pronto a menare le mani e tagliuzzarti lingua e palato per rimetterti a posto." GB2003
"..a Chianti should be flower and earth, with some shine of amarena, perhaps, but above all flower and earth.
It should be straight and sincere, bashful(?), "snaky" and also some(bit) ignorant.
A gentleman with a beautiful dry gesture, a man of few words, a man with his own stylized elegance.
And then (=aging), when it will finally take a seat in his armchair, to rest from this tension , it should caress you with small puffs of bittersweet tobacco and make You glimpse some vague nostalgic temptations of mushrooms and soil. Best friend on Your table but always ready to fight and shred your tongue and palate to put You in Your place."
As usual the translation is not as good as the italian...
Sorry !
Fabio
- winoweenie - 04-23-2003
Fabio. Succintly and beautifully put in any language. WW
- scimmiatinit - 04-23-2003
I forgot in the states You should find
LE TRAME by FELSINA
It's a bit expensive (around 30 us dollars?)
but it is the one that fit the description...
- Thomas - 04-23-2003
SB, this is the Italian wine thread and so I should like to respond to you in the Rants thread, where you have made me want to rant. Take a look there.
- Botafogo - 04-23-2003
>>I'm STILL waiting for someone to cough up what this regional character of Chianti is that was so freakin' vital to defend.<<
Ok, here:
A Chianti SHOULD taste and smell of the dust of the tuscan hills, dried cherries and leather.
It should NOT taste and smell like plums, chocolate, vanilla from oak or herbal notes from cabernet.
Case in point, taste something from Il Poggiololino. Fabulously typical on all levels from basic Chianti to Le Balze VDT and, to use one of my favorite customers' favorite descriptions "taste like they were made on an actual farm with pigs in the vicinity and will be fabulous with those same pigs".
- stevebody - 04-25-2003
Okay, that's more like it! Now, if it does taste like the dust of the Tuscan hills and dried cherries and leather but also tastes like strawberries and raspberries and cranberry - as many, many Chiantis do - is it still a trad Chianti? The producers of those wines certainly think so, since a lot of them are fighting the good fight over traditions of Chianti. Does that mean a Chianti can't be complex? Are any specific flavors just completely beyond the pale? I'm not challenging either of these lovely descriptions - I've saved them both to disc, so I can refer to them in talking with friends - but I can't believe than that's ALL Chianti is or should be. Is that what you're saying?
- wondersofwine - 04-25-2003
Looks like Roberto already told you what it should not taste like--plums, chocolate, vanilla, herbs. Sure there are gradations within the permissible flavors but I trust both Foodie and Roberto to recognize a traditional chianti as opposed to a new world amalgam. I think part of the divide is between commercial interests (serving the 90% who only care about how the wine tastes to them and maybe how WS or Robert Parker scored it) and the admittedly smaller clientele who appreciate wine history, background and tradition. Speaking personally, not for any other member of the board, I don't mind the use of new vinicultural practices or new technology if it increases predictability and quality of the wine without really changing the flavor profile (i.e., keeps in check stemminess, volatile acidity, tendency towards flabbiness, etc.). I do see the reasoning for a blend of sangiovese juice with cabernet sauvignon juice (or maybe some merlot) to be called something other than chianti classico. It's not a traditional chianti so should have a different label.