2001 Allegrini Volpolicella Classico - Printable Version
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- randery - 04-13-2003 09:07 PM
Stevebody referred to this wine some time ago. What a terific wine for $10. Also sampled an Alaura Cianti D.O.C.G. which was very smooth and "unchianti" like. $10. Thanks for the tip. Both are terific.
- Thomas - 04-14-2003 07:45 AM
Help me out here; why would you want a Chianti that is un-Chianti?
- randery - 04-14-2003 10:18 AM
Good point. What I meant is that it does not taste like the harsh and rough Chianti's that I remember from my relative youth.
- stevebody - 04-16-2003 08:22 AM
Raises the question of just what IS Chianti nowadays? Used to be this sorta light, almost spritzy stuff that was seen but not heard (or tasted) with an Ital dinner. Now that we have stuff like the Coltibuono Roberto Stucchi and the Castellare Classico - both of which are right assertive, does that mean that, to preserve tradition, we have to drink the old flaccid stuff? I fully expect any traditionalist reading this to take a lead pipe to me about typicity and regional character but I think the Italians should determine what Chianti is. I got "un-Chianti" loud and clear. The international style is a LOT more fulsome, interesting, and a far better value than MOST of the trad stuff. Homesick Italians used to sit around drinking that sorry plonk out of the basket-bottom bottles back when I was a young actor in NYC but even they didn't like it a lot, from what they told me.
Chianti is changing. The whole world is.
- Thomas - 04-17-2003 06:54 AM
Conclusion-jumping are we?
I simply wanted to know--for clarity's sake-- what it means to seek a named wine and then not want it to taste like the wine of that name.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 04-17-2003).]
- stevebody - 04-17-2003 09:19 AM
Jeez, Foodie, you seem like such a smart guy but you're just wearing my withered middle-aged tail out. Okay, let's see...what does a Chianti taste like? The original poster obviously had an idea or he wouldn't have said that it was un-Chianti. So we have everything from the spritzy, flaccid stuff we've all stumbled across from time to time, all the way to stuff like Coltibuono's basic Classico, to things like Monsanto Il Poggio. What's the Chianti here? If you have an answer for that one, you're smarter than me, not to mention half of Italy, because every Italian I know has a vastly different idea of what Chianti tastes like.
Maybe the person who started this thread likes the Sangiovese on a loose frame with a tad of Caniolo, food-wise acidity level, and maybe even saying the phrase, "Would you like a glass of this nice Chianti?", which I enjoy saying, myself. The idea that any class of wine has to taste a certain way seems indcredible to me. If all else were equal - people buying the same fruit, from the same vineyards, using the same equipment, in identical bottles, with matching labels, the wines would STILL be different because those individuals would make the wines in different ways, suiting their own tastes. Gather any group of five California Cabs and try to say they all taste alike. Can't be done.
That's the conclusion I'm jumping to: that wines are not REQUIRED to taste the same just because they're from the same region, town or even vineyard.
- winoweenie - 04-17-2003 09:35 AM
Hi SB. Just a note to let you know youse's granulated, indecredibutly, magnus come Laube from the weeners typing class.WW
- scimmiatinit - 04-17-2003 09:38 AM
We are again on the same point.
I understand what You are saying.
But please try to see also another point of view.
Denominations exist or better "should" exist to lead consumers through the shelfs.
I am glad Chianti has changed from the old stuff !
I still think that among new Chiantis there are big differences.
There are some like Monsanto that are very good Chianti (in the sense of a link to the tradition)and some other like Giorgio I that should rather prefer an other labelling though they can (I don't like it but most people do)be very good wines .
Just call them (for example) "Supertuscans" and stop confusing people !
Sorry for my english but I hope You got what I mean !
- Thomas - 04-17-2003 10:03 AM
Once more: all I did was to ask for clarification.
SB, don't patronize me--I AM a smart guy and, like Fabio, I wonder if you have the capacity to understand another point of view--yet you quite often accuse others of not having that capacity. And in this case, you attack a point of view that no one brought up.
- Kcwhippet - 04-17-2003 12:35 PM
Seems to be a trend.
- randery - 04-18-2003 07:24 AM
In fact, Foodie is correct. I did not want the wine to taste like the "old stuff". I am not knowledgable about wine. In my ignorance at a social function, I voiced my distaste for what I drank in the past and thought represented chianti. A friend responded and said much the same things about chianti as Stevebody and recommended the Alaura. He suggested that it would not taste like the swill I remember from years ago. It did not. It is a nice, full bodied and flavorful wine. I hope this clarifies it. Thank you.
[This message has been edited by randery (edited 04-18-2003).]
[This message has been edited by randery (edited 04-18-2003).]
- Botafogo - 04-18-2003 10:35 AM
A) While the Allegrini family make very good red wines, they are no longer recognizable as Valpo (or especially Amarone) and should be labeled as Vino da Tavola.
B) The text of a talk I gave at Vinitaly to 40 producers from all over Italy (which received a standing ovation):
"I have been asked to comment on what changes I have seen in the last fifteen years of coming to VinItaly.
I would say that in that time the average quality of wines across the board has increased by three fold. BUT, the average conformity of style has increased ten fold and you must realize that in the future, when all wines taste the same, only the cheapest will get sold.
I blame this situation on two people: Robert Parker who only likes ONE kind of wine and Luca Maroni who evidently does not like wine at all but only "pure fruit" and therefore should redirect his efforts to becoming the world's foremost critic of gelato and not waste his time on wine which should be a TRANSFORMATION of mere fruit into something much more interesting.
I beg of you that, when you return to your zonas next week, you seek out the oldest person in your village and talk to them in dialect, not Italian, about just what it was that made your village different (and therefore, of course, better!) than the village five kilometers down the road when that person was a child. Then, go out in your vineyards, taste the actual dirt, smell the wind and see that it is different in your hillside than on your neighbors and look very closely between the rows and see that there are NO reverse osmosis machines and no paddle fermenters and NO barriques and NO spinning cones growing there. And then promise yourself that next vintage you will make ITALIAN wine.....the world will love you for it!"
I'm Baaaaaaaaaaaack, Roberto
PS, Steve, there are enough Australian wineries in Australia to supply the world with stuff like that.
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 04-18-2003).]
- randery - 04-18-2003 11:05 AM
Whatever the Allegrini is, I like it. Thanks for the interesting information. Fascinating.
- Kcwhippet - 04-18-2003 11:18 AM
It's about time you got back, Roberto. This thread was begging for your input.
- Auburnwine - 04-18-2003 02:26 PM
I'm going to Italy this summer -- and know little about Italian wines. I have been doing my directed reading (thanks to IK and others), so I am learning.
Do you have suggestions of wineries or wine shops that I should visit on my travels? I will be staying just south of Rome, but will make it out and about.
- winoweenie - 04-18-2003 02:42 PM
Well Heidy-Ho There Roberto. See all of the systems have been fully recharged. Gladda' have'n youse back. WW
- Kcwhippet - 04-18-2003 03:35 PM
All we need now is for IK to get back. Seems like he's been gone forever. Miss the old coot.
- winoweenie - 04-18-2003 05:54 PM
Think he told me he'd be back this weekend. WW ( I dern sure know I'll hear, as Ise' gots my grubbys on some wine of hisn'. WW
[This message has been edited by winoweenie (edited 04-19-2003).]
- Thomas - 04-19-2003 02:48 PM
Auburnwine, in Italy you usually do not get to walk in on a winery tasting room, if there even is a tasting room at the winery. Mainly the big operations welcome tourists. But in many cities you can find an enoteca or two that do a fair job at offering an array of regional wines to sample and to buy. I have found these shops in small villages too.
The very best way to discover Italian wine while there is in the restaurants. I have had house wines (produced either by the proprietor of the restaurant or by a relative or friend of the prop) that made me want to take out a mortgage next door to the place.
Incidentally, to randery, a lot of so-called Chianti that used to come to America was of the lowest quality. It wasn't until quite recently that Americans discovered Italian wine and then Italians got the opportunity to sell their better wines here. I do agree with Roberto, however, about wine being produced as a reflection of the place from which it is produced.
In America we have elevated winemakers to a cult class, and so the winemaker's style or heavy hand or finesse is what writers and others blather on about. In Europe, too, winemakers (or rather the owners of the wineries) are being elevated to cult--American style--and that is a shame. There is a definite difference in vineyards that may be only a hundred feet apart; in my view, that difference should always be reflected in the wine.
If Chianti is too acidic for your taste, there are many wines out there that are not. Your job, should you agree to accept it, is to try them all!!!
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 04-19-2003).]
- randery - 04-19-2003 03:32 PM
Thank you all for the info. I guess its my duty to sample the various juices. hic. Tonight, true to that task, on yet ANOTHER recommendation,we'll sample an IGT Tuscan named Monte Antico. According to Andrea Immer the IGT designation doesn't mean much, but my btother loves the wine. For $8 I think its worth a try.
Thanks again to Foodie, Stevebody and Roberto. Happy holiday to all.
[This message has been edited by randery (edited 04-19-2003).]