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- aleo - 11-25-2002

Here's the deal. My lovely brother-in-law has a birthday coming up. Since traveling to Italy several times in the last few years, his love of Italian wine and culture is quite apparent (ie eating dinner at 9pm, lounging around the table post-meal, only Italian bread will do etc). I want to buy him a special bottle(s) of Italian wine for this birthday.
I would like to know this from you experts out there. If you were going to receive a special gift bottle what would your wish list include? He's partial to reds and I read that the wines from Tuscany and Piedmont are some of the finest. Don't want to spend over $70. Thanks from me and my brother-in-law.


- Botafogo - 11-25-2002

Some possibilities:

Paolo Bea Sagrantino di Montalfalco 1998, Umbria

Sertoli Salis Sforzato Canua 1999, Valtellina

Illuminati Lumen or Nico (both 1997), Abruzzo

Roberto


- scimmiatinit - 11-26-2002

I think We should know some more about your brother italian favourites.

Anyway I would choose "a classic":
Barolo or Barbaresco(Cordero di Montezemolo/ Bruno Giacosa/ Brezza Giacomo& Figli)
Brunello di Montalcino (Fuligni) or
Amarone della Valpolicella (Allegrini),
...but price (in the U.S.) could be a very strong limitation !!!

If You are lookin' for somethin' more affordable maybe Botafogo's choice will be more suitable (he knows prices in the U.S. I don't)


- Botafogo - 11-26-2002

Scim, these are about as CLASSIC as you can get: The Sertolis Salis and Bea wineries have been in the same families since the 1600's and Dino Illuminati is one of the Three Wise Men of the Abruzzo (along with Emidio Pepe and Eduardo Valentino). Both the Salis and Illuminati earned tre bicchieri from the GR while the Bea is just so blindingly honest, true to type and typical that it scares the GR the way kryptonite does Superman. AND, they are all under $60....(the Salis is just $45).

On another note, the giftee in question undoubtedly HAS Barolo and Brunello and these could open him up to the fact that they make great wine in every corner of Italy.

Roberto

PS: the current freakish, over manipulated, Aussie Syrah wannabe version of Allegrini Amarone are about as UN-classic as you can get while still using indigenous varietals.



[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 11-26-2002).]


- scimmiatinit - 11-27-2002

Dear Roberto it was not my intention to start a new discussione with You but only to say my opinion...

OK let's RE-read:
"If you were going to receive a special gift bottle what would your wish list include?"
I, me,Fabio, Scimm will wish Barolo, Barbaresco, Brunello & Amarone, ...

"..he's partial to reds and I read that the wines from Tuscany and Piedmont are some of the finest."
Abruzzo, Umbria, Lombardia,
...maybe there is somethin' I miss ?!

I like both Sertoli Salis Valtellina Sforzato Canua and Sagrantino di Montefalco (Bea unfortunately never tasted)...I didn't mean they are not a classic, I just think Barolo, Barbaresco, Brunello, Amarone are "the classic" of italian production.

Maybe for me "classic" is not only about history because in this case (and sense) Italy is full of classic producers&wines...


We are talkin' about a present for someone We don't know much about. Just is love for Italy ! Maybe He alreay has(d) Barolo, Barbaresco,.. Great... I am so sure He will appreciate another one...

Let's go on:
please,... please... Valentini(not Valentino who is a very important stylist...smile!) is ANOTHER PLANET from Illuminati and Pepe (who are still good producers, I like their wines and I also wrote recently very good notes about Pepe).

Finally...I don't really care about how many tre bicchieri any poducer can take I TASTE MYSELF !!!
Of course I read guides (Veronelli +/-, Maroni(indecent!), Masnaghetti, my favourite, and not only the GR, which results I posted on this forum, some time ago, hopin' in some interesting replies from all of You out there... but they never arrived! ).
I only read them to compare my personal notes... sometimes to discover somethin' new(Veronelli&Masnaghetti overall)... and to know which bottles/prices will go higher.. & higher(GR)...

PS
Maybe choosing a classic amarone Bertani or Santa Sofia would have been more appropriate than Allegrini...
sorry ! forgive me ! ....


- Thomas - 11-27-2002

Well, if I wanted to pipe up I would vote for a fine Ruche (Piemonte)--I (generally) do not recommend specific producers--advertising is their job; deciding what one likes is the consumer's job.


- scimmiatinit - 11-27-2002

I cannot agree Foodie, not all the ruche are the same and that's for every kind of wine.

Different producer means different style sometimes very different quality.

For example: Brunello usually are good wines but there are many "fakes" hangin'around...


- Botafogo - 11-27-2002

>>I read that the wines from Tuscany and Piedmont are some of the finest." <<

This is due to the rediculous laziness of the wine press IN AMERICA which almost never covers anything else except to say that Salice Salentino is a good buy if you are having a party.

>>We are talkin' about a present for someone We don't know much about.<<

All the more reason to get them something that is drinkable now without long term cellaring as we do not know if they will age the wine or not. This is why the Canua Sforsato is our first pick for corporate gifts for our clients (and run away champion in giftee happiness feedback): it is immediately accessable and makes a big impression yet is also vastly more complex and interesting than most other things in its price range.

>>Finally...I don't really care about how many tre bicchieri any poducer can take I TASTE MYSELF !!!<<

This isn't about you, I mentioned that so that both the giver and the giftee can find some info and positive feedback on the wine with very little effort and feel that they have got something wonderful even before they open the bottle. This is the #1 concern with gifts in this country.

Back to the Abruzzo, all three of those gentlemen are friends of ours, have radically different ideas about what the wines of the zona should be but have great respect for each other.

Another point you cannot see from Italy is that wines of equal price and reputation in Italy are often WIDELY divergent in price here according to how big the hype on them is here. A Brunello or Barolo that is not any better and my cost LESS in Italy than one of the wines I mentioned will usually sell for more as the supply chain believes a premium for familiarity is an entitlement.

What I do not understand is why you always get so aggitated when we are discussing wine, and why you want to limit the discussion the way American journalist and distributors do instead of showing the wonderful diversity of Italia. I believe you are from Naples, yes, what about a nice Taurasi or Aglianico Taburno Riserva, these are surely "classic" since the Romans enjoyed wines quite similar to them, eh?

Today is the biggest day of the year for us selling wine in the US so I have to go now and make sure that people have Lagrein and Teroldego and Ruche and Nero d'Avola and Ribolla Gialla and Prosecco with their tacchino instead of some boring Chianti or Pinot Grigio, Cheers and GO GET'EM FOODIE!

Roberto

[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 11-27-2002).]


- Thomas - 11-27-2002

Scimmiatinit--did I get that right?

I agree with what you say about each producer being different, which is exactly why I do not like to advertise for them. I prefer the consumer learn to experiment with many wines instead of blindly following a specific recommendation.

And what if I disagree with your recommendation? Does that mean the person asking has gotten any information, other than that you and I may disagree on one particular producer's offering?

Plus, since I own a wine shop, I do not want to appear to be pushing a particular wine over others because it is what I sell.

Yeah, Roberto, I am stealing time from a busy day--bye.


- scimmiatinit - 11-28-2002

"What I do not understand is why you always get so aggitated when we are discussing wine, and why you want to limit the discussion the way American journalist and distributors do instead of showing the wonderful diversity of Italia. I believe you are from Naples, yes, what about a nice Taurasi or Aglianico Taburno Riserva, these are surely "classic" since the Romans enjoyed wines quite similar to them, eh?"

:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)


Ciao and happy thanksgivin'day to everybody out there!


- Jackie - 11-28-2002

Aleo,

So many good choices. I wonder where you are located. It may not be so easy to lay your hands on the suggested wines.

Tell us where you are, and we can perhaps be more specific about what/where you can find them in your state.

Jackie