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+--- Thread: Wine and cheese (/thread-741.html)
- Thraz - 07-15-2005
We had friends over for Bastille Day, one of them a vegetarian - so everybody was a vegetarian. I had heard of some chef preparing a seven course cheese meal for vegetarians so I tried something in that vein. I took a cue from Engineer's wine party too and made the jump. Also, I was in charge of dinner and I will not subject guests to my cooking so it seemed like the way to go.
Amuse: baked brie, Brut Rose Paul Goerg NV ($24 at Total). Went very well; good wine.
Appetizer: piece of fresh goat cheese (log), fig jam, fresh figs, Baumard Savennières 2000 (previously posted). The wine and cheese were great, as were the cheese and figs, but the fresh figs and wine not so great. Not a big clash but next time I will skip the fresh figs, and stick to the cheese and jam.
Main: Brie, comté, lancashire (England), St. André, cold ratatouille, cold roasted peppers, olive spread, Bandol Domaine des Olivettes 1998 (previously posted). Very nice all around.
Dessert: Roquefort, Stilton, pears (the canned type, in juice), Aigle Blanc Vouvray Moelleux 1989 ($20 at Moore Bros in NJ). Great combination, great wine.
The only downside I think: it was a lot of drinking, and it made it difficult to really appreciate the wines towards the end of the meal. Or maybe it's just a lack of training. A good time was had by all, and the cheese thing was actually a big hit: with accompaniments and variety, it did not feel like we were eating too much of it. Everybody ate all of the cheeses at all the courses.
- Innkeeper - 07-15-2005
Sounds like a great time. What else to do on Bastille Day except drink a lot of wine. Seems appropriate.
- wondersofwine - 07-18-2005
Good going, Thraz.
- californiagirl - 07-18-2005
Sounds wonderful!!
- TheEngineer - 07-18-2005
I'm gonna try a few of those combo's! They sound Great!
- fsufan - 07-27-2005
I have a question that maybe you can help with. I am having a wine party this weekend, but I do not like the real strong smelly cheeses. I like the soft ones like Brie, Gouda, aged swiss or aged cheddar and some italians..do you have any suggestions of some others I may try as well as what to put them with..Thanks
- Thraz - 07-27-2005
There are zillions of theories and rules on wine and cheese pairing, but I find them overwhelming (and overkill, for my palate anyway) - so I stick to a few rules of thumb. The cheeses you mention are all cow's milk, and generally, the softer the paste (brie), the lighter the red wine; the harder the paste, the heavier the red wine can be. Soft paste cow's milk cheeses also work well with white wines such as sauvignon blanc or chenin blanc. These same white wines are also good with goat cheese, soft or hard. Generally, it is easier to overwhelm a cheese with too strong a wine than the other way around, so if you need one wine for many different types of cheese, you might want to stick to a white (I'm partial to Loire for cheese) or a light red. Otherwise, you could have two cheese platters, one with soft paste cheeses next to the wines more likely to go with them, and the hard paste cheeses next to other wines - this will suggest to your guests what to combine, but they will also be free to mix and match. Finally, from the cheeses you say you like, I would think you might also like St. Andre (soft paste from France), and Comte and Piave (hard paste, France and Italy). The Lancashire cheese from England was also very good, and if you like cheddar you would probably like that.
But then again, you can turn the whole pairing thing into the objective of the evening instead of providing guidance: ask your guests to taste and pair at will, and everyone has to give their favorite pairing at the end of the evening.
Sorry I'm getting carried away again - I do have a weakness for cheese.
- fsufan - 07-27-2005
Thankyou so much, that really does help and I wrote everything down so I can go shopping. I have all sorts of wine from soft to heavy to sweet to dry in both red & white. Too bad you live in Philadelphia...I'd invite you along
- Thomas - 07-28-2005
Thraz, sounds like you are doing fine in the wine and cheese department. In general, I find that fatty cheeses like Brie, and fattier, shine with high acid wines like sparkling, goat cheese is marvelous with Sauvignon Blanc and wines like it, mildly sharp cheeses do well with medium to full-bodied reds, and really stinky sharp cheeses are wonderful with dessert wines and stickies.
The only thing that leaves me wondering is:
when did cow's milk become vegetarian food? [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
- Thraz - 07-28-2005
On July 14th... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
I understand there are several levels of vegetarianism, this particular guest was one that eats cheese, I was not going to challenge him on it or there would have gone my dinner...
[This message has been edited by Thraz (edited 07-28-2005).]
- dananne - 07-28-2005
Speaking as likely the lone vegetarian on the board, there are several "levels" or "stages" of vegetarianism. Some avoid all animal products altogether -- they're vegan (that's me 99% of the time, though I'll do some dairy on exceptionally rare occasions or when I'm dining out, especially on vacation, and it's just too difficult and/or too much effort to avoid it otherwise -- that having been said, at this point because I've avoided it for so long, I'm borderline lactose intolerant, so I seem to do better with sheep and goat cheeses and the like when I'm "off diet").
Vegetarians who eat dairy are called lacto-vegetarians. Some eat eggs and are called ovo-vegetarians. If you eat dairy and eggs, then you're an ovo-lacto-vegetarian. And so on.
Some people even call themselves vegetarian if they eat seafood, but avoid meat. I even had one lady tell me she was vegetarian because she didn't eat red meat! Wierd, I know, but it proves that the definitions can be different for different people.
- Thomas - 07-28-2005
Well Dan,
Being a guy who makes his living with words, when I hear that someone who eats animal-based foods like cheese and eggs and fish can still be called a vegetarian, I get the same sensation as that blackboard fingernail scrape.
I am not a vegetarian, but I do respect vegans--mostly for the lack of confusion... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 07-28-2005).]
- dananne - 07-28-2005
Foodie, I feel the same way about it. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
- Thraz - 07-28-2005
Not to be picky, but not being a native speaker, I tend to ask about these things. Surely there has to be a difference between vegan and vegetarian? I can see how a vegetarian, as someone who does not eat meat, can still legitimately eat cheese - cheese is not meat, as in animal flesh? I have no vested interest in this, I am definitely not a vegetarian by any definition.
- Thomas - 07-29-2005
Thraz,
My point is that "vegetarian" implies vegetables. Neither cheese nor fish nor eggs can remotely be considered vegetables.
- Thraz - 07-29-2005
So vegan = vegeterian?
I do think the two mean two different things, but no matter - I will leave it to them to sort out, I have taken the board far enough off-topic. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
- dananne - 07-29-2005
Well, the proper definition of vegetarianism is the theory or practice of living on a diet consisting of vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains, and sometimes dairy and egg products. So, in that respect, you're correct. In practical terms, however, it generally implies avoiding all animal products (i.e. vegan) unless specified as other (i.e. ovo-lacto, etc.). All that having been said, there is significant confusion about the term, even within the vegetarian community, where vegans sometimes don't consider others vegetarian if they have any animal products (for the hardliners, this includes things like honey, as well).
I generally just look at the whole thing with amusement and interest, as it's all semantics. As Foodie does, I love words [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
- Thomas - 07-29-2005
Yeah Dan, it is semantics--the wrong kind [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
"vegan" was, born, I am sure, because the real "vegetarians" got tired of the word being skewed by slackers.
Having said all that, I must admit that I have had to reduce my meat intake for dietary reasons, and I am grouchy without my veal...
plus a smooth Lagrein, of course!
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 07-29-2005).]