+- WineBoard (https://www.wines.com/wineboard)
+-- Forum: GENERAL (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-100.html)
+--- Forum: Wine/Food Affinities (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-4.html)
+--- Thread: Restaurant Wine List (/thread-658.html)
Pages:
1
2
- barnesy - 11-17-2000
I know I am going to hear about this and I will be expecting my butt-whoopin-o-gram in the mail from WW after I am done but.....
Why not start off with the dual wine idea on a few limited dishes that seem to be more european than the others. This way, the non-californian wine investment is small. Think of it as a limited experiment with the cal wine only dishes as being the "control group." If you do good business on the dishes with europ/cal options, then you may wish to expand it. If you don't do good business on them, drop them.
I know this is a california cuisine place (WITH a euro flare), in the heart of WINE COUNTRY, USA. But if every other restuarant is doing the same thing, this one small thing may set you asside as a step up from them and may make you more interesting to the locals, while maintaining that californian WINE COUNTRY thing to the visitors. And on a limited few dish basis, its perhaps worthy of an experiment. This way it doesn't hurt you if you invest in wines for just a few dishes, but you can expand if it turns out to be the next best thing since sliced bread.
Barnesy
[This message has been edited by barnesy (edited 11-17-2000).]
- chittychattykathy - 11-17-2000
My two cents- I'd Stick mainly to the Cali wines, except for the Sparkling wine go with at least two true
Champagnes and PLEASE serve a couple of (a least) Washington Rieslings, if not German or French.
Thought: There are several Cotes du Rhone and other "old world" styled wines made in Cali that are quite good. I think that an opportunity to sell a few European "styled"' Californian wines will not only be a good learning experience for your customers but also supports a great Californian theme &your local Cali wine makers. Which is how it is in many restaurants (outside of big cities) in Europe. They provide a lions share for the local wines and fill in the gaps with other regions and then imports. CCK
- winecollector - 11-17-2000
Oh boy, I hate to get myself involved in these controversial topics, but Winoweenie really does have a point about people going out there on vacation and wanting to try the wines of the region. Yet Garbo and Barnesy have come up with a very interesting compromise. If Californian wines are as great as some of you guys think they are, then they should be able to stand up to the challenge. Yes or no?
- winoweenie - 11-18-2000
There is NO challenge. This is a business matter that requires a business decision not the Tuesday nite tasting group swirling and sniffing nor is it an experiment to see if the path to success comes thru Rhone. If the restaurant serves fine food at somewhat tolerable prices, has ambiance and good service, it`ll survive. IK, Hotsie, and Garbo, How many times have you eaten in Napa or Sonoma? I know you`re headin` that way shortly IK, Be sure and post ALL the french wines you find there. This is my last post on this thread. winoweenie just a P.S. The restaurants name is " Carneros ". And don`t think any of us has a vote. DUH!
[This message has been edited by winoweenie (edited 11-19-2000).]
- RAD - 11-18-2000
Not much more to say for me either--I think I expressed my view in my post earlier in the thread--but I'm with WW.
RAD
- Thomas - 11-18-2000
I still think a list that inlcudes wines from the world over, plus regularly rotating California features, will do the trick. As we have covered before, far too many California wines are produced in such a way as to be stand-alones rather than food companions. It would be better for the business to select the ones that match the foods and feature them together, and to always have Old World wines available for those who would rather play it safe.
As for Coturri: unless things have changed, the winemaking practices (I remember) were the cause of the many "bad" wines. In my humble opinion, the "bads" by far outweighed the "goods." There was another label whose name I cannot remember that was produced by the same winemaker; I used to have to duck the ducks that restaurateurs hurled at me for trying to sell them the stuff, which was volatile, dirty, unfiltered, unfined, unfinished and un inviting...
- Bucko - 11-18-2000
I'm 100% behind Foodie here -- balance the list. Too many CA wines only appeal to food that termites desire. That is not to say that there are not some fine CA wines, there most certainly are, but there are also far too many overextracted, high alcohol, heavily oaked wines that match no foods yet garner 97 points from certain critics.
Bucko
- Randy Caparoso - 11-18-2000
Mind if I weigh in, folks? Don't blame me, blame Jackie in Wine Board administration for pulling me in. This is a longtime restaurateur's opinion for those of you who don't know me.
Food should always be THE determining factor in decision as to what directions wine lists should go in.
If you eat in a restaurant in, say, Provence, that serves Provencal cooking, it's perfectly appropriate to expect strictly Provencal wines. It has as much to do with terroir as human responses and expectations. However, if that restaurant in Provence branches out to Italian, Greek or even Northern African influenced foods, it's no surprise if wines from other parts of the Mediterranean are to be found there. It's too be expected, and it's best for the food.
It only makes sense for our bourgeoning chef to appreciate regional Sonoma wines if their cooking style is focused on Sonoma foodstuffs, no matter what the cooking technique. However, if the kitchen starts to venture with, say, Indian seasonings, or Chinese spices, or strongly Italian herbs, oils and vinegars -- whatever -- it makes total sense to venture that wine list into wines from those regions. Or at least Sonoma grown wines that are geared towards those kind of foodstuffs.
People go to restaurants primarily to eat, and only incidentally to drink. So if the goal of every good restaurant is to create a harmonious overall experience -- tying decor, service, menu graphics, and of course, wine selections -- it only makes sense to start with the food, and build everything around it. I don't think anyone would disagree that their greatest restaurant experiences have been those with the greatest harmony of food and beverage -- whether in a country house in France, or in a three star temple in New York, London, Paris, Hong Kong, Tokyo, or Walla Walla, Washington.
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 11-18-2000).]
- Thomas - 11-18-2000
Welcome back Randy.
The post that started this thread refers to, "European influenced California cuisine." That is what started the controversy.
I have to admit, however, I know neither what California cuisine is, nor what the European influence to it would be, but I think the wines should be selected to pair with the menu, and that seems to say both European and California wines.
- mrdutton - 11-19-2000
Foodie....... I have to agree with your line of reasoning.
Bottom line, the food and the wine must match.
Randy, again, how nice to hear from you, you rascal.
Have you met Roberto? I'd really enjoy reading some intercourse between you two....... I think it would be most interesting to have both of you compare your notes and opinions. Wow ....... Pacific Rim against Italiano...
- ltmikey - 11-20-2000
Having ploughed through all the posts, finding some of them useful...others are less than useful...I decided not to force my opinion on anyone. I'll try to offer an alternative perspective. Here goes...
Dear Mikethechef, now that you know what you want to cook, it may be smart to figure out what it is that YOU want instead of your future guests. This may sound arrogant, but you have to be pleased yourself first before you can please anyone else. You are a selfprocelaimed wine illiterate, but being a chef you must have a well developed palate. So get together with your sommelier or winedirector and anyone else who will be advising the guests on food/wine issues in your future restaurant and judge for yourselves. Better even, have the sommelier select a couple of alternatives for each dish and make it a blind tasting to ensure objectivity.
Just keep in mind that it's hard to sell anything that one doesn't believe in for the full 100%
Good Luck,
Mikethesommelier