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TN: '96 Burgundy - Printable Version

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- Van The Man - 08-15-1999 01:04 PM

1996 Chteau de Viviers Lupe-Cholet; Chablis (FR) - $16.99

Pale lemon color. Nose with pear, some apple and mineral. On the palate, delicate and delicious with hints of apples and citrus framed with a stones and minerals in the back drop. A rather simple if not delicious wine, wonderful with the scallops and pasta we enjoyed. Much more my style as the wine is a bit lighter in it’s approach and more easily matched with seafood then typical California Chards.


- Randy Caparoso - 08-15-1999 07:36 PM

Van, I personally love a great bottle of Chablis. I love the flint in the nose, the mineral in the taste, and the lip smacking acidity and airy sense of lightness. But consider this: we used to always make a point of having a good quality Chablis on our wine list until we come to the realization that most of our guests found it to be a poor value when served in the context of our style of seafood, which tends to be rich with buttery sauces or layered with all sorts of contrasting seasonings, spices, vegetable and fruit sensations. For our food, Chablis tasted thin and weak!

That's all I'm trying to say (re the "oaky Chard" thread). Chablis is a great seafood wine, but not in all circumstances. "Typical" California Chard is not great with many types and preparations of seafood; but with others, it can be preferable!


- Van The Man - 08-15-1999 07:41 PM

Agree with you on the point Randy. A nice Chablis or a nice New England Chard would get lost in some seafood that is made with lots of exotic flavors. It's great for rich sauces though due to the acids....

However, if I were eating these types of seafood dishes, the ones you are describing, I find myself reaching time and again for a nice bottle of Alsace.

Just tonight, I had some fusion style cooking, salmon dutifully undercooked (I hate salmon that's cooked until it's dead, dead and then dead)with some untraditional methods and spices. I reached for a Spatlese since my favorite Hugel was out of stock.

But I can see your point on the delicate nature of some of these cool climate Chards....


- Randy Caparoso - 08-15-1999 08:09 PM

Ditto again, Van. No way would I have a Chard of any type from anywhere with salmon (except if poached in Chard, or served withthe lightest, dill nuanced cream emulsion). But own knee-jerk response to salmon -- even if undercooked -- is Pinot Noir (light, easy and spicy), and your secret herbs and spices sound just about right. If it's around a pool on a hot day, a vin gris from Pinot Noir.

But here's another idea: have you tried the Pinot Gris from across the Rhine River in Baden, Germany? The Heger Pinot Gris -- bone dry, minerally, floral, fainlty musky, but crisp and light as a feather (typical of good German wine) -- is an ideal wine for these types of herb/spiced up salmon. If it's to be Riesling, my preference is a Mosel or Kabinett, or a Pfalz or Rheingau Halbtrocken (I like less sugar to go with the lightness and crispness). Lots of ideas I can taste already!


- Van The Man - 08-16-1999 04:30 AM

Now that's a wine I can't ever remember trying and now you've got me thinking I should be on the lookout: a German Pinot Gris.

I too prefer the Mosel, Pfalz in the style of a Kabinett or Halbtrocken, but I figured with some of the spices going on , a little sugar from a Spatlese or Auslese would have worked well. Alas, with my meal it was just okay, nothing to go out and do over again and again. But the wife had nearly raw tuna infused with ginger, soy and garlic and that wine worked well.

You know, I can't honestly say I know of any PG from Germany....gotta find one of those.


- Randy Caparoso - 08-17-1999 01:38 AM

Well, sometimes German Pinot Gris is served as Grauburgunder (or Grau Burgunder), and sometimes as Rulander. Joachim Heger -- who bottles his wine under either Weinhaus Heger or (top-of-the-lines) Dr. Heger -- imports his Baden grown Pinot Gris under the French/American name, and he's widely considered one of the most talented, and innovative, winemakers in all of Germany. His American importer is Cellars International. It's definitely a must-experience!

Knowing your wife's marinade, I definitely would have opted for a light, zesty, spicy, pure scented Pinot Noir from Oregon, or perhaps even Germany (like a Spatburgunder by Weingut Lingenfelder, imported by Terry Theise), if not a light German Pinot Gris. A first class, off-dry Mosel-Saar-Ruwer estate certainly would have dalso done well, but I think in this case that a Pfalz would be just a touch tropical/fruity for the tuna. My first choice in Riesling would have been the zingy, racy style of a producer Weingut Forstmeister Geltz Zilliken from the Saar (another Cellars International selection), or one of those fine, delicate, yet sharp and flinty Ruwer estates like Weingut Karlsmukle or von Schubert. The idea is the more acidity and minerally, earthy flavors, the better with gingery/soy/garlicky rare tuna. Your wife, by the way, sounds like a great cook! Or are you a team?


- Van The Man - 08-17-1999 06:22 AM

>>Your wife, by the way, sounds like a great cook! Or are you a team?<<

Well actually, the salmon I was refering to was at a restaurant in downtown Providence, RI. I should have mentioned that. And had it not been a very special occassion for our friends, I would have taken notes and paid less attention to them. <g>

But, my wife does create, mostly deserts. I do the majority of the cooking and love it very much. It's a passion and I love learning. In fact, a HUGE opportunity for me to learn is sauces. I've done some research but am at the point where I need real training by a professional to be honest. And for some reason, I'm just not a "natural" at it where as many marinates, pastas, fish and spanish dishes I can do well. I can do marinara sauces for pasta and "mexican" salsas as well as mango based salsas for fish and so forth, but delicate sauces and rich cream based sauces I need lots of work on....


- Randy Caparoso - 08-17-1999 11:10 PM

Well, if you ask me, short of doing stints in a good French restaurant (which are getting increasingly rarer these days, with people going to Mediterranean/California style cooking these days), all you can do is work at it. Julia Child and Elizabeth David are great places to start. Read, and do it. It's all about stock.

By the way, wood grilled white fish (like swordfish) with mango/pineapple/cilantro salsa (layered, perhaps, with thin slivers of fresh avocado) is pretty good with fat, oaky/fruity California style Chardonnay. It was David Rosengarten, I believe, who first celebrated the joys of that.

Personally, I hate to cook. I'll open the bottle and watch, thank you. Let the "real" men (and women) do the hard work.

[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 08-17-99).]