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- Innkeeper - 09-28-2001
Flabby is a politically correct term for fat. Fat according to Hugh Johnson is, "Wine with a flavor and texture that fills your mouth, but without aggression." Mr Johnson could have added, without other compensating qualities such as acidity. In the case of chardonnay, particularly New World Chardonnay, the problem is that most of it (90%+) is exposed to green oak or "teabags" of toasted oak sawdust (depending on whether or not is over or under the $15 price point), malolactic fermentation, and/or excessive exposure to its lees during fermentation; and further exposure to new and/or old oak in the aging process. When all the resulting flavor is combined with normally low degrees of acidity, a flabby wine results.
[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 09-28-2001).]
- Thomas - 09-28-2001
couldna sedit bedda!
- Drew - 09-28-2001
The acidity of a wine is usually tasted as soon as it comes into contact with the sides of your tongue. Acidity gives wine its crispness on the palate. A dry wine needs good levels of acidity to provide liveliness and balance; a sweet wine needs acidity so it does not seem cloying. Too much acidity and the wine will seem harsh or bitter. Too little and the wine will seem "flabby" and dull.
Drew
- Thomas - 09-29-2001
Let me correct one thing in the above post: bitter is not a description associated with acidity--tart is the word. Tannin is bitter at the finish.
- mrdutton - 09-29-2001
Splitting hairs - Roget's lists bitter as a synonym of tart.
However, the four tastes are salt, sour, sweet and bitter. This tends to disagree with Roget's, since sour is the taste of acid by definition. So maybe the hairs ain't split.
Isn't English a grande language?
- Thomas - 09-29-2001
Mike, the first thing I ever learned as a writer was to not rely on Roget's. Some of the so-called synonyms in that book will get you into trouble.
Words to describe tastes--or any other sensation--are often confusing. When it comes to bitter and tart there is a definite difference; the former attacks the sides of the tongue and is more sensation than taste; the latter reaches farther back on the tongue and seems more taste than sensation.
- mrdutton - 09-29-2001
Foodie - that's what I thot I said.....!!!
We are disagreeing in order to agree with one another. (GRIN!!)
Kinda like the difference between a fresh lemon slice eaten but not chewed, and a teaspoon of Angostura drunk............ One is crisp and acidic the other is certainly bitter (and very, very tannic)!
[This message has been edited by mrdutton (edited 09-29-2001).]
- lolly mackenzie - 10-01-2001
So ultimately what you all are saying is that most Chardonnay lack the acidity that is necessary to 'cut' through the oilyness of the salmon and therefore are too flabby or lacking in crispness - correct? If so -that make sense to this rookie.
- Thomas - 10-01-2001
Not most Chardonnay--but a great deal of them. It's all in how you produce the wine, and far too many producers create flabby Chardonnay. Not flabby Chardonnay is produced in Macon, Saint Veran, Chablis (in the old style, not the new style) Pouilly Fuisse (sp) and some Chardonnay produced east of the Rockies--IK, what have I left out?
- Innkeeper - 10-01-2001
A very small handful of left coast chardonnay. I'll drink all the non-reserve chardonnay I can get from Tobin James. Also, Sierra Vista, El Dorado; and a few others. The problem with American vintners is that you have to ask them mano-y-mano. Don't trust distrubutors for a minute, and retailers just a little more (unless, of course the joint is WineExpo or Is-Wine).
The folks from Oz and Kiwiland use the term "unwooded" with chardonnay and even some sauvignon. All of these I've tried are fine. At least the label gives you a heads up.
[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 10-01-2001).]