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- Drew - 06-17-2009
Foodie, if you don't benefit from the TN I.E. money, favors, kickbacks etc. how would it be pimping? I do understand your complaint of retailers and such who would use your TN's as a recommendation to buy the wine like the numerous shelf talkers that line the shelves of stores with Parker, Tanzer and Wine Spectator scores displayed and those included in email advertisments and flyers. When Robin Garr highlights a wine with his TN ,and often recommendation, as you see on his homepage, is he pimping that wine? How about Parker or any of the many wine critics who do the same? How about all the participants in the many wine boards who clearly work for or are associated with a wine store, as in our own KC, who post TN's? Are they pimping those wines? I just struggle to see the relationship...and I thought I knew pimps [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
DRew
[This message has been edited by Drew (edited 06-17-2009).]
- Thomas - 06-17-2009
Drew,
You probably do know pimps better than I [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] For the record, I don't know much about their products either...
The problem isn't that I would be pimping, which I would not and never would do. The problem is that all it takes is the appearance of pimping to bring someone's reputation and career to a halt.
If the Internet is good at something, it certainly is good at circulating rumors and misinformation. One fellow accused me online of rigging a wine tasting result that I can only assume displeased him. And I did the tasting for free and with the aim of producing a learning experience for the participants.
I'm remembering a quote from someone but can't remember where I heard or read it-to paraphrase: it can take decades to build a career but someone else can help tear it down in five minutes.
I never, ever, bill myself as a wine critic. I'm uninterested in that kind of wine writing. I enjoy learning and then teaching what I think I've learned. It's easier for someone to impugn my reputation than to impugn a critic, since, as you point out, the job of the critic is to talk about specific wines. Still, look at the trouble over at Squire's forum site that ensued after the entry of one blogger in late April--not exactly five minutes, but a much shorter span in meltdown than it took to build up that site.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 06-17-2009).]
- Kcwhippet - 06-17-2009
Drew,
I hope I can dispel any charges of pimping wines our shop carries. Admittedly, in the over ten years I've been on here, I have posted a very few TN's on our wines. My intent for those has been for informational purposes on wines I really, really like. There's very positive impact to our shop by those posts since only the Engineer is near enough to come in, and we don't ship. So, if anyone else wants to try those wines, they have to find them near where they live.
So, that leaves all the other TN's I've posted. Judy and I have about 600 bottles in our cellar and at the present time, only 6 were bought in our shop -3 each of Cline California Zin and Hacienda Merlot. Those aren't the best of wines but we find them decent everyday quaffers with food. All the rest were bought by us from other sources - a lot from wineries that don't have wines available locally, more we've found in other shops at really good prices, and some that friends and family have gifted us.
So, I sure hope I haven't been seen as pimping wines here. Even though I'm ITB, I participate here as a consumer and wine lover, and I hope that comes through in my posts.
- Kcwhippet - 06-17-2009
[quote]Originally posted by Kcwhippet:
[b]Drew,
I hope I can dispel any charges of pimping wines our shop carries. Admittedly, in the over ten years I've been on here, I have posted a very few TN's on our wines. My intent for those has been for informational purposes on wines I really, really like. There's no real positive impact to our shop by those posts since only the Engineer is near enough to come in, and we don't ship anywhere. So, if anyone else wants to try those wines, they have to find them near where they live.
So, that leaves all the other TN's I've posted. Judy and I currently have about 600 bottles in our cellar and at the present time, only 6 were bought in our shop -3 each of Cline California Zin and Hacienda Merlot. Those aren't the best of wines but we find them decent everyday quaffers with food. All the rest were bought by us from other sources - a lot from wineries that don't have wines available locally, more we've found in other shops at really good prices, and some that friends and family have gifted us.
So, I sure hope I haven't been seen as pimping wines here. Even though I'm ITB, I participate here as a consumer and wine lover, and I hope that comes through in my posts.
[/b][/quote]
- Thomas - 06-17-2009
KC,
I want you to know that I don't believe that you or any other long-standing poster on this board pimps wine.
- Drew - 06-17-2009
I've never had the impression that any regular poster on the board was pimping wine including PW who owns the site, just my observation. I certainly understand the shock [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] of the appearance change of the homepage and, yes, it would be grand if sales were second and wine camaraderie and information was first but, realistically, what's the crime?
DRew
- lizardbrains - 06-24-2009
Hey, all! I guess this was good(?) timing for me to do my once-in-a-long-while pop-in. I was surprised to see the new look at wines.com, but was happy that the forum is still here! You all are a great group of real, down-to-earth, people whom I really respect and enjoy conversing with about wine!
In fact, I was having a South African wine the other night, and I was thinking of Innkeeper. :-)
My 2 kiddos keep me so very busy, I hardly get a moment to think. But they're actually getting along at the moment, so I thought I'd pop in and say hi! I do hope this board won't go away - it's a good one!
- wondersofwine - 06-24-2009
Nice to see you back LB. Hope you can drop in more often. What age are the children now and what sex are they?
- hotwine - 06-24-2009
Hey-hey, LB! Welcome back!
- andrawes76 - 06-28-2009
Hello there. I've been meaning to pop in here and I don't want to give the impression of being defensive. What I read below is both disheartening and also understandible. There are a good amount of you who are looking at Wines.com now as a wine retailer vs. a wine portal, which in WW's case caused him to leave. To loose someone of this prolific nature is saddening, and I hope he reconsiders since he's a businessman himself and surely understands on some level that Wines.com is a business and requires hundreds of thousands of dollars to build and maintain. The decision to increase ecommerce was made by Jackie and myself as we have always felt that it was a shame to have Wines.com and only be selling one wine and one wine club. We both agreed that the Wine Board should stay and should not be influenced by business. I would agree that the homepage is not very inviting into the Wine Board, and we're going to change that priority one, in a few days. In August when Wines.com will relaunch a new interface that highlights (appear first) the forum, wine news, encyclopedia, and even better allows retailers in other states, especially states that prohibit wine shipping to sell wines or list their services. The new interface will also allow wineries/wine enthusiasts to upload wine videos that they record. We will incorporate a new wine wikipedia that us users can update because the wine world changes, and its nice to update on the fly. Again, the new layout for Wines.com will feature a more prominently displayed forum from the homepage and blog which will essentially pull data from forum. Whether that wine is available for sale or not via Wines.com will not matter, nor has it ever mattered. It is rare to see me posting new wines for sale on the forum. If we were purely capitalist pimps, would we want to see other's post hot deals from other retailers? I think not. Do we send you mass emails trying to sell you things? No. I will never consider charging or requiring detailed registration to use the encyclopedia or forum. Its always been a free and easy way to access Friends' wine info on the Wine Board. This Board is untouched by our team and Jackie specifically told me this Board is a tribute to Jerry. Whether you choose to buy something from Wines.com is your decision and we respect that, but we are a Wine Company, and we have employees who work hard right here in the US (we don't outsource anything from a development standpoint internationlly). If our hard work on Wines.com does not meet your standards and if we are doing things wrong, then please tell us so we can make it better for everyone. My cell phone number is (512) 698-5762 and I work 24/7. I take criticism well. I want to say that I care about this Wine Board and everyone who has contributed to its growth, including Verne. Sorry to have lost you, Verne, please reconsider.
[This message has been edited by Personal Wine (edited 06-28-2009).]
- andrawes76 - 06-28-2009
LB, its a pleasure to meet you. We hope to see you here more regularly. PW
- andrawes76 - 06-29-2009
Drew and the Wine Board, we'll restore an ad-interim homepage with imagery and more direct flow to the Forum, All About Wine, The Encyclopedia. We have a template that should address the traffic and camraderie first. After all, wine is good, but better with friends. Have a good night all.
- Innkeeper - 06-29-2009
Thanks for bringing us to date PW. Your proposals for changes in the coming months sound promising. It should be noted that when you add wines.com to your favorites, which I have for the past ten years; it says under your favorites "guide to wines online." This is what Jerry had in mind; not "sale of wines online."
- andrawes76 - 06-29-2009
Innkeeper, Hotwine, Foodie, Drew, Wondersofwine, Duane, Dananne, VouvrayHead, KCWhippet, winophite, and Wineoweenie, I will always do my best to preserve Jerry's legacy. Today, no later than tomorrow we'll restore the homepage to give the Education and Wine Board priority promenence on the homepage. You guys are the inspiration of the Wine Board and we want to keep it that way. My apologies for the "sleezy salesman" style of the homepage. Your opinions are VERY valuable to Wines.com. Stay tuned for changes and please if you don't like something, tell me, don't walk away from what is the BEST forum on the internet.
- andrawes76 - 06-29-2009
Jackie provided us with a template that would be more condusive to guide people to the forum. We just loaded it. The bottom half of the homepage needs to change to be less sales oriented. We're going to continue to work on it, and would appreciate advice. Best to you all. Alex
- andrawes76 - 06-29-2009
We're pretty close to updating the homepage, going to reduce the amount of products sold on the homepage, put in a news feed and a few other details to give it more of the old vibe. After that the next major change will be the new site that will be launched in August. Thanks to everyone for letting me know how you feel about Wines.com. I am about to go enjoy a nice left over new world style Primativo. Had it today with an Italian salcitto topped chicken in a rich tomato reduction sauce. Twas heavenly.
- Drew - 06-30-2009
and what was the Primitivo?
Drew
- Thomas - 06-30-2009
More important: what's a 'new world style' Primitivo?
- Innkeeper - 06-30-2009
Foodie, it's a wine made out of grapes from a Primitivo clone in the New World. I know we get such a wine from Tobin James every year or two along with a selection of their Zins. There are supposed to be two or three vineyards in the Paso area growing it, and have heard of others elsewhere in California.
- Thomas - 06-30-2009
Thanks, IK. I thought PersonalWine was talking about the style of wine having changed in Italy to New World, although I have come across one or two that reminded me less of Italy and more of California.
Funny thing: I've tasted many California Zinfandels that remind me of Italian wine, but never hear anyone claim that California Primitivo reminds of Italy.