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- Botafogo - 11-10-2002
Hotwine, if it's any comfort to you I bet, if you need any firewood or maybe some compost, you could get a train car load of "The Emerging Democratic Majority" by John B. Judis & Ruy Teixeira right now for about 10 cents a pound! Can you imagine what an abrubt end to those guy's book tour must have happened last week?
Roberto
- hotwine - 11-10-2002
Yeah, I love it. I'm betting the Republican Party will grow, the ranks of Independents will swell, and the Democratic Party will shrink. It can't happen too soon.
- Auburnwine - 11-11-2002
When LBJ signed the Civil Rights bill, he said it would be great for America but would mean the end of the Democratic party. In Alabama (and Georgia), white folks are busy exacting their revenge on the Democrats. In Georgia, the Republican voted in a Rebel-flag-waver for governor and painted a Vietnam triple amputee Democrat senator as anti-American.
I've never been so glad to see any election over. And what IS the deal with Trent Lott's hair?
As goes Alabama, so goes the U.S.? Might as well close down your public schools and universities and get ready to use those SUV's for driving through pot-holes. We have the lowest taxes (highest on wine and beer, though) and teachers who have to buy their own copy paper. College students can't wait to graduate and then get the hellout of Dodge.
- Thomas - 11-11-2002
One of the reasons I stay out of political arguments is because most people begin to sound a lot nastier than they really are. Some of you guys are proving my point.
Do some of you really believe there are people in America who do not deserve a voice? That is a nasty, cynical view of America, and it misses the whole point of what this country is supposed to represent.
But Roberto got it right: we have a representative form of government that does not represent us. If we had a true democracy everyone would have access at the table, as everyone should.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 11-11-2002).]
- hotwine - 11-11-2002
Everybody's welcome at the table.... but some (Daschle, Hillary, McAuliffe, et al) are gonna have to be content with bunkhouse fare for a while. Nourishing, but not exactly the goor-mette vittles they've enjoyed for so long.
- Auburnwine - 11-12-2002
One small stat: three-quarters of the Senate races and more than 95 percent of the House contests were won by the candidate who spent the most money.
In my congressional district the Republican (who won by less than 3,000 votes) outspent the Democrat more than 3 to 1. And that's not even counting the two visits that George Dubbya made (paid for by the Americanpeople).
But to keep our Board on task, Alabama wine and beer distributors gave 6 1/2 times as much to Republicans as to Democrats. So we won't be expecting any changes in shipping laws any time soon, will we?
- Glass_A_Day - 11-12-2002
I hate to say it guys, but if wine shipping laws suffer by keeping republicans in office then that is a sacrifice I am willing to make. Put a liberal in office and I won't have any money left to spend on wine anyway.
- Auburnwine - 11-12-2002
Yeah, it's a trade off. Democrats with a balanced budget, low unemployment, an awareness of environmental preservation, and a definite movement toward Middle Eastern peace ... or Republicans letting people like Jerry Bin Falwell and Kenny Boy Lay write the rules we live by.
I've generally had more money to spend on wine when Democrats were in charge and a lot more time under-employed when someone named Bush was running the show.
- Thomas - 11-12-2002
We do live in crass and inelegant political times. I long for leaders who know the difference between the will of the people and ill will, and who can separate capitalistic greed from democracy.
- Glass_A_Day - 11-12-2002
You have got to be kidding me. Unemployment is always higher when democrats are in office. People have the option of sitting home and collecting welfare for spending cash, section eight to pay for housing, food stamps for dinner, and fuel assistance for heat. Why go to work with that system in place? Give a man a fish and feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. And the peoples will? Bush has the highest approval rating of any president in the last 20 years. Thats the people speaking. I also saw the people speak the last election. No one believes the democrats anymore. Where have you been? When Iraq sends a dirty bomb into port and explodes it before inspection, then maybe it will be a good time to get involved? How silly is that? The old saying still holds true....A liberal at 20 or you have no heart....A liberal at 40 and you have no brain.
- Auburnwine - 11-13-2002
"Unemployment is always higher when democrats are in office"? Hardly.
You might want to look at the facts instead of listening to Christian Coalition propaganda. I'm surprised that the Bush administration hasn't shut down the Bureau of Labor Statistics web site as a threat to National Security.
Between 1960 and 2000, the unemployment rate under Democratic Presidents averaged 5.3%, compared to 6.6% under Republicans. It's only 5.7% now, so GW is doing brilliantly by Republican standards. Yeah, it was 4% when GW brought his economic vision to our great nation.
The GDP grew at an average 4.1% annual rate under Democrats, (2.9% for Republican presidents).
Inflation averaged 3.8% under Democrats, but 5.3% under Republicans. (Remember Ford's brilliant "Whip Inflation Now" campaign?).
The federal funds interest rate averaged 5.4% under Democrats, 7.9% under Republicans.
Labor productivity averaged 2.2% growth under Democrats, compared to 1.9% under Republicans.
Median family income grew at an average rate of 2.2% under Democrats, but only 0.6% under Republicans.
Fixed private investment grew at 7.1% under Democrats, triple the 2.7% rate under Republican Presidents.
Federal deficits totaled $506 billion under Democrats, but $2.5 trillion under Republicans, with the only balanced budgets coming under Democratic Presidents.
The trade deficit averaged 0.8% of our economy under Democrats, but 2.4% under Republicans.
[This message has been edited by Auburnwine (edited 11-13-2002).]
- Botafogo - 11-13-2002
Thanks for the research Auburn, you should print all of that out on T-Shirts! But our friends from the dark side are more interested in what they call "character" (which means not getting caught being a weasel) and "principle" (which means telling everyone one thing while you do another at the behest of corporate masters) than facts.
Remember the Meese anti-porn commission? They had to scrap the whole thing when it didn't match their already set in stone conclusions...seems all that smut was actually a valuable service to society, providing a diversion and release for otherwise violent anti-social behavior.Just ask Verne!!!!
I could go on but we are BUSY!!!!
Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 11-13-2002).]
- Glass_A_Day - 11-13-2002
Great numbers, but for all, I could find the opposite from differnet sources. It's just who you want to believe. Apparently I am in the majority right now with the approval rating that you conveniently forgot to rebut. And the past elections? Just this month? I guess the majority of us are all wrong and you guys are right. I'm glad we have you around to keep us on our toes. Must be frustrating for you all. But for how long..... I see a trend here.....Can say "A dieing breed?" I guess it doens't matter. I've had great Cabernets with either party in office and I imagine I will in the future as well. Glad I gave you somthing to do finding all those stats. I wish I had that much time on my hands, but I'm too busy tasting wine. No hard feelings fellas. I should have remembered the old man's advice, "Never, ever, argue politics or religion." Sorry to have offered the counterpoint. I did not realize that most of this board was of the same political opinion. Have a great day all.
- Botafogo - 11-13-2002
You want high approval ratings, check Saddam Housein's or Herr Schicklegruber's about 1934... 100% is hard to beat.
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
It is because of our winner take all system of NON representative government that a 3% shift in votes gives the appearance of a landslide. In an actual democracy Perot, the Libertarians, Nader and probably the Klan and the ACLU would all have seats in congress and maybe even in the cabinet and it would actually be interesting...
re reading Orwell as we speak, Roberto
- Thomas - 11-13-2002
As I said, talking politics makes people nasty.
Glass-A-Day, I don't think ww, hotwine, innkeeper, and bucko would agree with you that this board has one political bent, and if I read them correctly, they bend your way. Name-calling and skewing the facts is not the best way to make a case, although it does work in politics these days.
On another political note, check out my post on the Wine and Politics forum.
- Auburnwine - 11-13-2002
Ah well, if Glass_A_Day places greater trust in the Christian Coalition than the Bureau of Labor Statistics, logic does have notable limitations.
I don't think that Democrats are a "dieing breed" [sic]. Democrats carried the popular vote but lost the last presidential race by five Supreme Court votes. In 2002 they lost control of the Senate by fewer than 40,000 votes. Not exactly the touted ground-swell of national support for George W. -- even though Republicans outspent Democrats by $200 million in 2002.
What exactly will that $200 million buy? Not much for middle America, I fear. Lower capital gains taxes? Big whoop!
Trent Lott gets to write abortion laws and Pat Robertson gets to promote Middle East armageddon. Maybe Kenny Boy Lay will get to rewrite the principles of accounting (again!).
It's a new day in America.
P.S. My deepest apologies to Winecollector who started off this train of thought with such a cheery note! Yes, I have been drinking some brilliant wines -- the Elderton Command Shiraz, the Peter Lehmann Stonewell, the Marquis Phillips Shiraz, a Turley Zin and a nice Liar's Dice Zin from Murphy Goode. Oh, and the stickies: the De Bartoli Show Muscat and the Seppelt Trafford Tawny Port. Life is good!
[This message has been edited by Auburnwine (edited 11-13-2002).]
- Glass_A_Day - 11-13-2002
Sorry if I offended anyone. Just my opinion.
- Auburnwine - 11-14-2002
Oh, you didn't offend me. I just find what's going on in American politics incomprehensible. We're the strongest power in the history of the world, and we have a brilliant opportunity to make our world a better, safer place for our children and our grandchildren -- and we are squandering it because some draft-dodging talk-show hosts are still mad a Bill Clinton.
- Glass_A_Day - 11-14-2002
But Bill was a draftdoger as well and if he didn't let Bin Laden slip away twice we would still have our old skyline in NY. This is why I get fired up. We give out more money and settle more disputes in the world than anyone. No one helps us when we have floods, earthquakes, or other natural disasters, but we send out billions in aid for these same problems elsewhere. No one feeds our homeless, but we feed the starving around the world. Our trade centers were destroyed and no one sent anyone to help clean the mess, but when other countries get attacked we send people and funds to help them rebuild. We bailed out most of Europe in the two world wars and no one is greatful. I think our track record is pretty damn good in helping others in both funding and keeping the peace. That's why I'm a "love it or leave it" kind of guy. We ARE making the world a safer and better place right now and have been all along. History speaks quite loudly. Iraq is constantly on the hunt for what is necessary to make a nuclear bomb. Why do you think that is? Just so they can have it? For fun? No, to use it. They have been tied to the 9-11 terrorists. What more do we need. An actual attack and then we can say....why didn't we do somthing sooner...But I digress, how about a nice supertuscan to settle all this. I'm sure that would put us all in a fine mood.
- wondersofwine - 11-15-2002
Here you are proposing to drink a wine from ungrateful Europe! Salute! Prost! A votre chance! Etc. Thanks to the Canadians. They sheltered some of the American diplomats in their embassy when our embassy in Iran was invaded,and the people in Newfoundland went to extraordinary lengths to help American travelers stranded there by grounded airplanes on September 11th. My memory may be playing tricks on me, but I was thinking some foreign nations did help out after the hurricanes a few years ago.
I work with Special Operations Forces and I am very mindful that a war with Iraq will cost the lives of some fine men. We have already experienced losses in Afghanistan. Perhaps regime change in Iraq is necessary but I hope if we go to war, it is not prolonged or very costly in human lives.