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+--- Thread: And the winner is............. (/thread-20255.html)
- Botafogo - 12-05-2000
>>But why should I believe Roberto or Foodie or CCK in their respective establishments any more than WS?<<
I can't speak for the other two but (for the tenth time) I, personally, will stand behind every wine I recommend and you will NOT get that from Marvin and crew. I print my HOME phone number on my business cards. I don't get complaints. We also exist for the sole purpose of getting you good value, NOT running up prices. AND diversity is a religion with us, we are not trying to make all wine taste the same.
>>Not to offend any of you three, but do any of you have the time to cultivate and/or know my own likes and dislikes?<<
That is my JOB DESCRIPTION! We will have you "calibrated' in short order (even shorter if you come to one of our large general tastings featuring over fifty varietals and styles instead of just different brands) and then we absolutely will do just that. It's my main function actually.
This is why literally hundreds of folks walk in and spend more time chatting about music, retaurants and movies than wine as we are making a mixed case that exactly matches their tastes and budget (and always includes new items) as we gossip. We have gone out of our way to create a community not a warehouse.
Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 12-05-2000).]
- mrdutton - 12-05-2000
On the lighter side..... somehow I just knew that this thread was gonna make at least two pages!
At least two of us here have recently choosen some of Roberto's selections. I am certain, that after we let them rest, there will be some TN's posted.
I did "cheat" with one bottle and paid the price.
I opened a "Gaio" Terrazze Retiche di Sondrio IGT 1999 as soon as it arrived. The better half did not like it, she said "too much earth".
I caught the fruit, just barely, and got a lot of earthiness out of it. It smelled like dirt, but once I got past the earthiness, I kinda liked it anyway.
We'll try it again and give it another chance. I am almost willing to bet it opens up a lot.
- Botafogo - 12-06-2000
Isn't "too much terroir" kind of like "too much jazz" or "two much sex"??? Wine is not supposed to be fruit juice, it is supposed to trancend that and be a lens into the soil. But then, that's just a thousand years of Old World crap, right?
- Botafogo - 12-06-2000
>>>#10 Score Price CASTELLO DEI RAMPOLLA Toscana Sammarco 1997 97 $73 Black color. Aromas of blackberries, minerals and mint. Very subtle. Full-bodied, with amazing concentration of silky tannins and a finish that goes on and on. Monumental Sammarco. Best ever for me. Best after 2005. --(JS)
Drew
foodie Try to find one of them.<<<<
Assuming you actually want some of that, call me (and you won't be paying anything like $73.00) but I would STILL recommend a Buttafuoco Storico from Pelligrini or some Sforzato from Triaca as being better and cheaper. But that's just my prejudice....for value over status, Roberto
- Drew - 12-06-2000
>>Isn't "too much terroir" kind of like "too much jazz" or "two much sex"??? Wine is not supposed to be fruit juice, it is supposed to trancend that and be a lens into the soil. But then, that's just a thousand years of Old World crap, right?<<
For me it's balance. I've had many French wines that I would describe as having "too much terroir", I like the balance of flavors and don't like wines that taste like "a thousand years of Old World crap!"
I don't think WS or Parker's Advocate or any other "rag" exists for the sole purpose of running up prices either, I mean lets all kill the messenger. Just as with your business, I have the choice to follow your advise or Spectators or any one elses. I have primarily 2 wine shops that I visit as a REGULAR customer. They both specialize in different types of wines and have similar, but not identicle, tastes and recs and I respect them both. They'll exchange bad wines, no hassle. I don't know if they would exchange or replace wines solely on a "just not my cup of tea" response on a frequent basis. You know there are many people out there that demand perfection, according to their tastes, and I think some would take advantage of your policy. On the other hand, I don't expect perfection and if I drink wine purchased on your recommendation that is ok, but I wouldn't buy again, I would never think to ask for an exchange. Most people that I know follow this thinking also. Wine selection is a crap shoot....even with good recommendations.
Your statement about Marv standing behind his recs also doesn't hold water. Do you expect your stock broker to refund failed investments or at least those that only slightly satisfy? If failed speculations occur too frequently then you find another broker and it's the same with wine shop owners and critics. You find one that's consistantly good, and don't expect perfection....there's always bumps on the road.
Drew
- RAD - 12-06-2000
Roberto, it sounds then like you're the exception rather than the rule among wine retailers. Too bad you can't ship to NY!. Of course, I do now have Foodie... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
RAD
- Thomas - 12-06-2000
Yep RAD, that is what I do: try to establish the customer's desires and then steer him/her towards what might fit the need--with subtle steering toward something I like and think he/she might like to try. I may not carry the WS or Parker high scores in my shop, but I will make an effort to find them for an established customer (operative word is established).
As for the question why should anyone believe an interested retailer over the magazines--I think I just gave the answer to that one. Try getting a magazine to cater to your individual wine needs or desires.
I will say this for the last time and then cry UNCLE. The reason I dislike the gurus is that they do little to foster the concept of a daily glass of wine. They foster the elitist ideal and that is NOT wine--that is status or art or oak, but it is not wine. Wine is food, and as the Italians see it, both food and wine are simple, everyday pleasures, and I am not ashamed to admit that I like that philosophy.
- RAD - 12-06-2000
Foodie, I'll drink to that! Looking forward to visiting your shop soon. I've not yet spent a penny of my monthly wine allocation. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
RAD
- mrdutton - 12-06-2000
Roberto, the "Gaio" reminded me of retsina - so it was certainly full of old world crap!
But after allowing it to settle for a couple of days, it started to sit better on MY palate. Your description in your catalog pointed out that this wine was "very fruit forward". And trust me, please, I was not looking for SUGAR.
Well it took a couple of days for the fruit to come forward. Now, I'll let the other bottles rest for a week or so before I try it again.
Right now my opinion of this one is....... well, maybe okay. This wine is a "lens into the soil" that is for sure. I am just not sure, yet, whether or not I really love it. It was okay. I said that above.
And please.... it was my wife who said TOO MUCH EARTH. I just said it tasted like dirt, and that was not meant in a derogatory mannner. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by mrdutton (edited 12-06-2000).]
- winoweenie - 12-06-2000
And now Boto-Babe we see the end-game unfolding. It`s almost impossible to transpose a persons` taste to your buds. You can make a bunch of good educated guesses, but `haint no way of we`uns all seein` wine with the same lens. Recall the Kevin Arnold Syrah? Diffy strokens for diff`n folksies. winoweenie
- Bucko - 12-06-2000
Oh my GAWD!! WW has joined Foodie and me in the 1000 club..... the three stooges.....
Bucko
- chittychattykathy - 12-07-2000
Wow, go away for a few days...
1-Drew, my Cinq is $56.
2-Foodie, I agree with you, that the folks who come into my store with their WS in hand tend to not be my loyal customers, 98 out of a 100 to be sure. This does not mean that a regular customer and I never chat about what's being shown or said in WS (or other mags) but the conversations do not involve "I saw this in WS and must have it" type demands, but more like "Kathy, do you really think that this 'fil-in-a-name' is worth $125?" Types of questions. This is often followed by the- "What else is as good, & costs less, or is more available?" questions. (Love that!)
3-And RAD, cultivating your likes (well, you know, if you were here) is my job!!! I mean they could have a stock person move the wine bottles around (for a whole lot less $$$) and keep things looking okay, I could just come in and meet with my vendors and go home by noon. But I spend a majority of my day (or eve.) standing amongst my wine selections cultivating trust from people that may know twice as much about wine as I do, or maybe don't even know what Merlot is, yet.
My view of WS is the same as my view of Vogue, or Architectural Digest. They are showing an Image, "the beautiful world of wine", including "fantastic" lifestyles that most all of us do not live. This is not a bad thing, if you see it as that and sit back and enjoy, for an hour or two the "fun fantasy" world of- high fashion, muti-million dollar houses, or wines (that you may never even get a chance to look at in person, let alone buy). It can be time spent chilling-out and learning a bit. And there is a definitely place for magazines like WS. I mean, where else would people that live in say, Idaho, ever get to see many of these high-end, or high-demand wines? (I do not see a lot of them and I am in a large city, travel to wine regions and am in the industry.) My thing is that I just don't dig ANY "top" lists, (Other then Dave's) they grind me the wrong way.
Lastly, It's a sad thing when I (you?) see a person who walks around a real "fashion victim" because they do not understand that just because it is trendy, does not mean it is for them, (or not to wear several trends at once). & Really, are not folks who are trying to complete sets of top 10 wines, or do such crazed, sad things as Roberto mentioned above truly "wine victims" and not wine enthusiasts?!
- hotwine - 12-07-2000
That merits a tip of the ole Stetson to Kathy. Well said.
- winoweenie - 12-07-2000
Tell`m Like It Be CCK. winoweenie. Gadzooks! I`m not old enough to be a one-Grand Poster. SOB. WW
- Drew - 12-07-2000
Thanks CCK, I can't imagine why this one store in my area is charging $90, although it was displayed in their "trophy" case. I rarely do business with them anyway,(they're one of the up and comming wine "super stores") Your comments are right on. Your descriptive interaction with a customer is the same relationship that I enjoy with my main "wine guy". We even still enjoy a laugh about that one awful tasting bottle of Ruche' that he suggested a year ago and no, Roberto, I did not ask for a replacement or refund...the wine was not spoiled or corked, it was just drek!
Drew
- Botafogo - 12-07-2000
Verne, I DO remember that Shiraz, we DID have some bottle variation and I DID make you whole with no questions asked. As to Ruche, this is a varietal you either love or hate, no one is on the fence. It is so diametrically opposed to "lush soft fruit with a smooth finish" that maybe 15% of the population just can't handle it but that does not make it "dreck" any more than Mississippi Fred McDowel's version of "You got to Move" is dreck compared to a cleaned up version from Eric Clapton. It is what it is and you don't have to like it but it is immensly popular amongst those who do. We feel that the best wine we offer are the ones where 85% of folks LOVE them and 15% HATE them and no one is on the fence. Those are the truly interesting wines.Our largest selling California wine of all time, the Pagor Vino Tinto Tempranillo is just such a wine and is not too far removed from that Ruche in style.
We also sell a VERY traditional Refosco from Friuli that is not put through malolactic fermentation (the winery offers two versions, the "interno" and the "exporto" we took the first one) and has enough acidity to take the enamel off your teeth yet is fabulous with grilled game sausages with garlic and paprika. We tell EVERYONE that we have more range of styles than any three other stores put together and also tell EVERYONE that if we suggest something and they do not like it we will give them something else. And that would include you Drew. This is how folks learn about the true diversity of wine. Next week we will offer twelve vintages of Pepe Montepulciano d'Abruzzo going back into the 70's and they are all over the map style wise but each is a unique document of a time and place and people have been bugging us for them for three years since we did a tasting with Stefania Pepe here.
I LOVE my job, Roberto
- Botafogo - 12-07-2000
>>I would never think to ask for an exchange. Most people that I know follow this thinking also.<<
Even if we told you "this is really different and if you don't like it bring it back"??? We absolutely stand behind every bottle and this is one of the keys to our tremendous success. On a similar tip, I have a friend who works in a great record store and every week she gives me ten CDs with the full understanding that anything I don't like I can return. She gives me everything from Sacred Steel Guitars of Pentecostal Florida to Ska Compiliations to Ambient Rai from Algeria, bats about .857 and I LOVE this service! Absolutley makes my Sundays.....
Roberto
- Drew - 12-07-2000
Well Roberto, excuse me if I sound so skeptical. Kudos to you and other business people that practice your stated policy, with no reservations, which I've not experienced in my region. Spoiled, corked, cooked, tainted no problem....I't wasn't my taste, well....that was the roll of the dice.
Drew
- winoweenie - 12-07-2000
Drew, your eyesight must be dimmin`.Botofugo wants` us to believe he " Loves his Job!" You`d think there`d be some indication in his posts, or at the very least some passion in his retorts. SHEESE! WW
- Drew - 12-07-2000
"If your work is becoming uninteresting, so are you. Work is an inanimate thing and can be made lively and interesting only by injecting yourself into it. Your job is only as big as you are."
- George C. Hubbs
I think Mr. Hubbs had Roberto in mind when he said this.
...and WW, I do wish Roberto would say want's on his mind instead of beating around the bush. No political jokes please.
Drew