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Oaked and Unoaked wines - Printable Version

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- BobAndMegi - 04-29-2003

Hello,

Does anybody know how long can we keep young wines in cellar? Up to 4 years? I haven't seen 'best before' on any of our bottles [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img], and I would not like to waste any of our wines...

Begging for an advise.

Bob and Megi


- stevebody - 04-29-2003

Hey, guys! Wine rarely - maybe never - comes with that sort of info on the bottle. For an educated guess at a wine's aging potential, the best you can really do is ask a knowledgeable person at a local wine store, OR - and this is probably what the wine salesperson will do - read the Wine Spectator, Wine Advocate, Wine Enthusiast, or some other wine publication's review of it. Right at the edn of the blurb, it will usually say something like "best between 2005 and 2009", or "can be consumed for the next 1 - 2 years". The first does NOT mean you can't drink it now; just that it will PROBABLY peak around then. The second means that the wine is one of those that's ready to drink when released and probably won't improve with aging.

As a rule - with certain delightful exceptions like my beloved A-Mano Primitivo, which improves beautifully with a year's cellaring - inexpensive wines are made to be drunk NOW, in most cases lacking the tannins, dissolved solids, and acids necessary for significant improvement in the bottle. Even people who sorta know about this stuff occasionally guess wrong, case in point, my own cellaring of a Domaine de Lavabre Languedoc that went straight to Heck when I cellared it for about ten months.

If you register online with Wine Spectator, you can read most of their reviews for free and they'll help with figuring out what to drink and what you can hold.


- Innkeeper - 04-29-2003

SB gave you an excellent answer to your question. What I don't understand is the relationship between your thread title and your question. Did you also want to know something about oaked and unoaked wines?


- BobAndMegi - 04-30-2003

Thanks SB - that helps - does not solve our problem, but helps.

Innkeeper. Well - that is another problem - you see, I don't know almost nothings about wines. I have never drunk any kind of alcohol - NEVER. That is because I am a scout, and a Polish Scout - and we don't drink alcohol at all. (Why is another topic [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]) The thing is, that I am working in a hotel - quite good one. We have obout 300 different wines in our celars. I am Front of House Manager, but I sometimes happens that I need to deal with Restaurant Managers duties.
I don't know the difference in unoaked and oaked wines - I just thought that means young and old wines- I see I was wrong.

I am here to try learn sth about wines, but I don't know how much it will be possible without drinking a single drop of it [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]...

Anyway thanks for explanations.

Bob


- wondersofwine - 04-30-2003

It certainly does help to inform customers about wines if you have tasted them yourself. One clue about oaked wines with American labels is wording such as "vanilla flavor, sweet oak, cedar, butterscotch, buttery, etc." Certain varieties often see a lot of oak aging (or wood chips to give an oaky flavor to less expensive wine)--chardonnay is one that in California is usually given the oak treatment. Also in Burgundy proper. (In Chablis or Macon regions of France it is usually not aged in new oak. Some Australian and New Zealand chardonnays say on the label "unwooded" or
"unoaked.") Other varietal grapes are usually not aged in oak--Riesling, Gewurztraminer, Pinot Grigio. Not sure about practices making Viognier wines, and I believe Sauvignon Blanc wine is sometimes aged in oak; more often probably not. If you receive advertising material from the vineyards or suppliers, that might answer the question about vinifying procedures. Also, many vineyards have websites that will answer such questions. Since as a nondrinker it will be harder for you to be informed, you may need to put some time into answering the questions about the brands you carry by looking up information on the Web. This forum is a good start.


- stevebody - 04-30-2003

Without meaning to in any way influence your tastes about oaked or unoaked wines, let me just observe that a lot of people feel that oak-barrel fermentation and ageing is something that is negatively altering the flavor of wines in general. I'm right in the middle: if it enhances the wine, great, but a lot of times, it's as gratuitous as carrying a pager with your cel phone.

America has taken a bad rap the past decade or so - and probably a little bit deservedly - for popularizing the practice of oaking almost everything. Even some of the German varietals WoW mentioned are oaked by American producers. We weren't the first country to use oak, of course, but we've kinda run it into the ground. As a general rule, if it's from California and it's red, it's oaked. Ditto for almost all the whites, even things like Viognier, which REALLY don't need it. I've tasted almost 300 whites from all over the globe in the last three months and maybe 25% of them were NOT oaked.

For pusposes of talking to your customers, you can and probably should assume that an American red will be showing some oak. Here in Washington, where oak is a little less prevalent than in CA, the vast majority of our reds get oak and far too many of the whites as well. Follow WoW's guidelines for the French stuff but beware: a lot of the French wineries that make wines primarily for export to the US are now oaking whites because they know we like it.

I heartily second the suggestion to get the vintners' notes on your wines. The distributors have them but are sometimes lazy about providing them. If you insist - gently - they'll eventually cough them up. And DO insist. The key to selling wine successfully is knowing your wines and being able to answer questions and GIVE OPINIONS. People want to have their wine choices validated by a knowledgeable person. Wine, especially in restaurants, ain't cheap, and folks want to know that they're getting a bottle that is a good use of their $$$.

It takes a long time to amass wine knowledge but the journey can be very pleasurable and enlightening if you stick with it.


- barnesy - 05-03-2003

Idn't the year on the bottle the experation date?

Wine by dudweiser, born on dating.

As a rule, most wines are meant to be drank within the firt few years of being produced. These are usually the least expensive, which is what the the average beginner starts with and what most people consume in the greatest quantity.

Barnesy


- BobAndMegi - 05-03-2003

Guys, Thank you all for explanations. Now I am a bit wiser, but on the other hand I can see how far I am in all The Wine Knowlegde.

I know how to check-in guest, make him pay [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img], write a program on PC, employ staff, do almost all managment stuff, but the wines? Brrrrr, a long way to come.

And as you wrote - it would be nice to let our guests know why theyt are paying £300 (pounds) for a bottle of wine...

I think I need to buy me a book [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img] a good and big Wine Book...

Hmmm, could I ask you one more thing? I'd like to know about champagnes - what is the best of the best from Champagnes? Any Prirority?
I know/think of:
1. Champagne (French, oryginal)
2. Russian Igristoje
3. Sparkling Wine (Australia), Cava (Spain)

but what about no. 1? How can I tell that the Champagne is good?

Sorry, maybe I am asking for too much...

Bob.


- stevebody - 05-04-2003

Bob,

Judging from my experience, you're going to have to work to find a bottle of truly BAD Champagne - "Champagne" defined as the stuff from the Champagne region of France and not just any other bubbly. I've been sampling them for over ten years as part of my work and I've found maybe three in that whole time that were truly unpotable. Champagne is just one of life's great pleasures and almost every producer in that appellation makes nice wine. It's all a matter of taste, of course, but I'd rather drink a Champagne over an American, Australian, or Spanish Cava, any day.

That said, some of the New World bubblies AND many of the Cavas and especially the Italian Franciacortas are spectacular. The Ferrari Brut, Perle, and Riserva will stand toe-to-toe with any Champagnes for balance, delicacy, mousse, and flavor. At a bargain price, the Mionetto wines, Proseccos mostly, are fun and extremely well made. And for sheer fun and value, the Cavas are unbeatable.

The Russian stuff you mentioned I know zip about. Love to learn more, if I can find some but they're not imported into Washington state, at this point.

General Rule: (And I doubt anyone on this forum would mount a serious rebuttal) Champagne is still the class of the sparklings and probably always will be.


- winer - 05-04-2003

Bob

A very good idea to get a book on wines. And an EXCELLENT book for beginners is "Wine for Dummies". My own copy is getting very dogeared. There are also several other "Dummies" books about wine, one for red wine, one for white etc, but the initial Wine for Dummies is the one I use all the time.