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+--- Thread: comparing German wines to US wines (/thread-19396.html)
- ChrisJFontenot - 05-27-1999
I am interested in finding out the naming conventions for California wines if you compare them to a German Spatlase or "ice wine." What would they be called in a California or New York wine?
As I understand it(?), Spatlase and auslese and the like indicate the age of the grapes before picking,the later the grape, the sweeter the wine. I like sweet wines, but don't know how to tell that in American wines.
[This message has been edited by ChrisJFontenot (edited 05-28-99).]
- Thomas - 05-28-1999
Ice wine is usually called such in the United States. Terms like "spatlese" generally have no American counterpart, at least none that I know of; anyone else know more on the matter?
- Randy Caparoso - 05-28-1999
My reading, Chris and foodie, is basically that you can't really compare Rieslings grown in Germany with those grown in California or anywhere else along the West Coast (I don't have the knowledge to speak about any other part of the U.S.). Most of the German wine growing regions are much cooler than any region along the West Coast, and consequently develop wines with easily more intense fragrance and flavor, not to mention higher levels of acidity and an intrinsic sense of balance and delicacy (particularly due to the lower alcohol levels -- 9%-11% as opposed to California's 11%-13% -- at which they are able to express themselves).
Therefore, Rieslings that are picked at "normal" levels in California -- usually resulting in slightly to medium sweet wines (.6% to 2.5% residual sugar) -- actually correspond to wines picked at sugar levels qualifying as Spatlese ("late picked) to Auslese ("special late picked) in Germany. Generally speaking, of course, since the major regions within Germany also vary.
Confusing the matter, a number of the better German producers are now making their Spatlese and even Auslese wines into halbtrocken ("half dry") or even "trocken" (dry) wines -- all in all, even dryer than California wines picked at similar sugar levels!
Now that I've crossed myself up, here's one guideline:
1. Wines that Germans would consider Spatlese or Auslese are usually called "Late Harvest Riesling" in places like California. These wines (from both places) are invariably fairly sweet (at least 3% residual sugar)... but not always, of course.
2. A "regular" California Riesling (no special designations except for the name of the grape) usually corresponds to a Kabinett, QbA (Qualitatswein bestimmter Anbaugebiete) or QmP (Qualitatswein mit Pradikat) level Riesling in Germany; that is, approximately 1% to just over 2% residual sugar.
3. "Ice Wine" (or eiswein in Germany) does not refer to an actual level of sugar at picking, but simply the fact that the wine was partially frozen on the vine. It's a similar type situation as the presence of botrytis (or edefaule in Germany). Ice wines can occur at sugar levels ranging anywhere from Spatlese to Trockenbeerenauslese (well over 10% residual sugar); just as botrytis can occur (or NOT occur) within this entire range of picking level. But in spite of the varying sugar levels, one can usually expect an ice wine to be pretty darned sweet, yet uniquely light, almost ethereal in balance and breadth of perfume.
For the the most clearly stated introduction to German wine terms, by the way, I always recommend Hugh Johnson's classic Wine Atlas of the World.
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 05-28-99).]
- Thomas - 05-29-1999
While East Coast Rieslings grow in a climate similar to German regions there are no harvesting rules as to sugar content, et al, so terms like spatltese, auslese do not relate, notwithstanding that the styles in New York are also similar to German wines.
Using the term Ice Wine is problematic, since there is a "natural" way to do it (in the vineyard) and another way to do it (in refrigerated compartments). In Canada, producers cannot use the term unless the "natural" method was used to produce it.
- hncjc - 06-07-1999
Spatlese, Auslese, etc., now actually only measure the must weight of the grapes at harvest (mostly the amount of grape sugar). While it is true that the names would indicate a later harvest, and thus an "older" grape as you indicated, that is not in all events so. Nonreisling grapes may accumulate must weight before reisling, and thus perversely often have a higher designation. Often the must weight goes up more if the vintage is warm, rather than colder.
As one gets to higher designations, particularly BA and TBA, the grapes likely are largely infected with a mold called Botrytis Cineria (my spelling is probably a little off), also known as the noble rot. Grapes so infected lose much of their water and thus concentrating sugars and other flavors. Eiswein is also made by getting rid of water and concentrating the remaining flavors, this time by freezing the grapes. In California, icewine is often made by putting grapes in a freezer.
As someone else wrote, if you want a Spatlese or Auslese style wine from California, look for late harvest. Sweeter wines often will be designated select late harvest. Usually, on Calfornia wines, the label will state the residual sugar. Great late harvest wines in California are made by Phelps, Chateau St. Jean, Beringer and Arrowood, among others.
- Jason - 06-15-1999
Eiswein does have to follow particular parameters for must weight. It is ths same as BA's.
- Randy Caparoso - 06-16-1999
Actually, Jason -- After I wrote my thing more than a couple of weeks ago (off the top of my head, which is not always a clear area for me), I asked someone in the MS Society if the laws had changed for Eiswein usage, and I was told that Auslese level sweetness is now the legal minimum. Where did you get your info?
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 06-16-99).]
- Randy Caparoso - 06-16-1999
Well, now I am going to answer my own question. After (in my usual fashion) firing off my last note, I checked with Jancis Robinson's Oxford Companion and confirmed that Eiswein must indeed be harvested with must weights at least at the level of Beeerenauslese. Just to be sure, I checked out my little Der Grosse Ring ("The Elite Estates") book by Verlag Heinen (translated by Rudi Wiest in '83), who confirms Robinson; but who also writes, rather nebulously, that Eiswein is "not an official quality classification." It does, however, refer to grapes that are frozen solid on the vine; which is why you often see Eiswein on a label without a BA or TBA classification.
All of which does not quite explain to me, a professional of two decades, why I have seen, tasted and served Eiswein Ausleses and Eiswein Spatleses over the years (well, pre-'80s, I guess) by estates as established as Thanisch's Bernkasteler Doktor.
Eiswein, by the way, is technically (or is it to say, "unofficially?") a wine that is made from frozen, but not botrytized, grapes. Yet one of the tricks (not super common, though) some estates do to protect their potential Eiswein is cover them with plastic sheets to protect them through November when freezing temperatures normally occur. Naturally, some botrytis has been known to occur under the partly damp conditions of the plastic sheeting. Granted, not a lot. But enough to add further interest to this intriguing, high stakes, and evidently quite gameful, pursuit.
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 06-16-99).]
[This message has been edited by Randy Caparoso (edited 06-16-99).]
- Jason - 06-16-1999
Randy,
This has caused me to do a bit of digging. I had remembered from MS program about the BA equivelance but I also did check with Robinson before I wrote. After more digging, it seems our fellow BB member, Tom Stevenson has the best info. His explanation answers our questions very well.
Apparenlty Eiswein did in fact become the sixth predicate level in 1982. This would make sense as previously it was annexed to other predicates, (as you noted) and your book from '83 was probably printed to late to catch the update.
Tom also states that the Oechsle level can be as high as TBA but is still very different because of the lack of botrytis. I was not aware that Eisweins are noteable for their high acidity. Thank you to Randy and Tom on this one.
- Randy Caparoso - 06-17-1999
Thank YOU, Jason. Boy, we learn new things everyday. My MS source had also mentioned rule changes going into effect in 1983, but obviously his memory was a little faulty regarding the Auslese/BA requirement. I also wished I had mentioned the almost searing levels of acidity Eisweins get in my original discourse. Definitely a hallmark of the style -- giving, to my palate, the unique, scintillating, almost electrical quality of such wines.