+- WineBoard (https://www.wines.com/wineboard)
+-- Forum: GENERAL (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-100.html)
+--- Forum: For the Novice (https://www.wines.com/wineboard/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: Need Extensive General Info (/thread-19313.html)
- Yoshi2all - 10-18-2006
Alright, I have been a server for a while, but I just got hired at an extremely fine dining 'Chinese' food restaurant. Most of the patrons are basketball players, politicians, actors and other influencial people. Part of getting through training is taking an extensive wine knowledge test, from red to white to ports. So basically I was wondering if anyone knows of any good places to get detailed information of a variety of wines. Also, if possible, give hints/tips for wine with chinese food -- should I just follow the basic rules for chicken, beef, duck, etc. or should use the entree's sweetness, spicyness, etc. to suggest a wine. Any help would be appreciated. I cannot drink wine due to medication I take and I even worry when I just taste, swish, spit so I must rely on YOU for my info. Talk about losing a major pleasure in life just because I have to take medication :~(
Thank you, Josh
- Kcwhippet - 10-18-2006
Sounds like one of the Fat places, maybe Frank Fat's?
- Yoshi2all - 10-18-2006
Yup, the Fat family loves thier chinese food AND their wine. Most ppl recommend white wine with chinese food, but noone really orders white wine there. The whole do chardonnay with chinese food cliche' just doesn't work there, you need to know your sh**.
- Innkeeper - 10-18-2006
It would be a big help if we could see the wine list. Otherwise we'll be shooting in the dark. Is it online, or can you post it here?
- wondersofwine - 10-18-2006
Basic books on wine that have been recommended on this forum are "Wine for Dummies," Andrea Immer's "Great Wines Made Simple," Kevin Zraly's "Windows on the World" wine course.
In answer to one of your questions, you should take into account the sweetness or spiciness of the dish. Gewurztraminer is a white wine that often demonstrates some spiciness (Gewurze means spices in German) and matches with some Chinese food. A duck breast in a sweet fruit sauce might call for an off-dry Riesling. I like to have plum wine and tea when I dine at a Chinese restaurant but I realize not everyone enjoys those choices. Pinot Noir can be a versatile red that might work with pork dishes that are not highly spiced. Beaujolais likewise. Syrah, which is often a bit spicy, is a red to consider with more highly spiced dishes. But really one of the basic books would be a good start for you.
- Yoshi2all - 10-18-2006
Innkeeper, good point... here is the wine list http://www.fatsrestaurants.com/frankfats/winelist.html
Also thanks for the info wonders that was actually very helpful.
- Yoshi2all - 10-18-2006
For a server that can't drink, personal knowledge is 1000X better than anything in a book. I will probably get one for the basics and study up, but I really want some personal advice I could give Swarzineggar if he doesn't know what to eat with his peking duck *snicker*. Ironically, even this website in one of the FAQ sections says 'if you are unsure ask your server'. That made me feel pretty stupid to say the least. Once again thank you so much for your help its appreciated more than you know.
- Innkeeper - 10-18-2006
Wow! and I don't mean WOW (Wondersofwine). I cannot understand why there is no Gewurztraminer, Riesling, Syrah/Shiraz, or Spanish Reds; all of which are my go to wines with oriental food.
All you really have to work with IMHO are the sparklers, Sauvignon Blanc, Zinfandel, and Pinot Noir. The SB will go with your lighter fish and chicken dishes; the Pinot will go with light to medium meat and especially duck dishes; and Zinfandel goes with the big, spicy, sweet dishes. When in doubt go with a sparkler.
Unless they serve steak or creamy dishes, I don't know what to serve the Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, or Chardonnay with.
The dessert wines look very good. Use the white ones with the lighter desserts, and the red ones with chocolate and heavier desserts.
[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 10-18-2006).]
- dananne - 10-18-2006
IK said something that I wanted to repeat:
"When in doubt go with a sparkler."
IMHO, sparklers are the most underrated and underappreciated food wines available. They go wonderfully with a wide variety of Chinese and other Asian dishes.
Also, as he said, wines that typically are chosen with Chinese, like Gewurtz or Riesling, are absent. He's spot on with his recs.
Good luck, and welcome to the board. Also, thanks for reading the FAQs -- you'd be surprised how many people don't [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
- Bucko - 10-18-2006
"I cannot understand why there is no Gewurztraminer, Riesling..."
That pretty well sums it up, IK. The place can't be too serious about their wine without the TOP TWO wines to pair with Asian foods. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/rolleyes.gif[/img]
- TheEngineer - 10-18-2006
I'm gonna throw my $0.02 at this. I agree that not having riesling a Gwerztraiminer on the menu is weak as it does work very well for this VERY Americanized Chinese menu. And there are some very experienced tasters on this board...of which I am not one of so please take this with a LARGE grain of salt.
The dishes appears to be served family style versus one dish at a time so having a wine that works with it all will be difficult, especially when you don't have a riesling or a Gwerzt.
Just step back and go back to basics though Duck is duck and fish is fish. If the sauces are not hugely favorful, what use to work before in standard western food pairing will work now. The difficult will be that the steamed fish (light) will come out with a hot and spicy something or other.
In a more formal Chinese dinner (which you may also have), there is a progression from lighter dishes to heavier dishes so that there is an opportunity for wines to be matched to sections of the dinner courses (upwards of 12-14 courses). In a family style setting I've seen both a bottle of white and red at the table at the same time and the dinners will adjust the selection of food themselves.
Also Chinese friends of mine find that caramelized (charred) dishes that have soya sauce in it work well with Cabs. Pinot may works well with stir fried seafood which often is served with a light red vinegar.
Have fun!
- wondersofwine - 10-19-2006
Yoshi, you might impress with your "wine knowledge" if you make the suggestion that the restaurant add a Gewurztraminer from Alsace, a few German Rieslings at the Kabinett and Spatlese level and a couple California or Washington Syrahs to the list.
Even if you are in California the restaurant patrons should have a choice beyond Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot or Chardonnay, especially with Chinese food.
- brappy - 10-19-2006
I have to agree it's odd not having more than chardonnay and Sauv. blanc as choices for whites. Riesling, gewertz, albarino, verdello, etc. would help the menu along.
However, I would have NO problem finding a wine to match with the dishes on this menu. Also some nice values for restaurant pricing in the high end selections.
- Thomas - 10-19-2006
My guess is that the clientele wouldn't order Riesling (eeww that's too sweet) or Gewurztraminer (how do you say it?). Nope the wine list likely reflects what customers ask for in that place.
In this order, I would recommend
Sparkling wine (almost anything)
Pinot Noir (duck stuff, and stuff like duck)
Zinfandel (for big dishes)
Dare I say it, anything with a touch of sweetness, like White Zinfandel should work with a lot of the dishes.
Chardonnay (for the customer who knows it all) and Sauvignon Blanc (for that customer's know it all friend...)
- Yoshi2all - 10-19-2006
I think its Gah-VERTZ-trah-miner, but no matter -- its not on the menu. I guess politicians don't care that much for white and if they're celebrating their going with bubbly. You guys have really been helpful, more than you know -- especially with such a unique wine list for a chinese food restaurant. I pretty much recommend pinot noir for duck, and wing it from there (no pun intended). Now I have a lot more recommendations and I'm confident I won't sound stupid or like a snob in front of the customer.
I don't know if now is the time to ask why the white wines are so limited, maybe in a year to two... *snicker*.
-Josh
- Thomas - 10-19-2006
It's geh-VERTZ-tra-meener, and that is why they won't order it. Shwartzenwhatshisname might give it a try--the pronunciation, not the wine.
Anyway, I am one of those who has determined through much trial and error that you have to select your Gewurztraminer carefully when pairing it with Oriental food. Sometimes--many times--the alcohol in the Alsatian wines is just too much, and the wood too.
In fact, I have come to the conclusion that there are no blanket recommendations when pairing wine with food because you never know--unless you already know--what the producer has done to the wine, especially if the wine is in worldwide distribution.
- Yoshi2all - 10-19-2006
I was close on how to say it, I guess. I personally hate it when the governator comes in because we have to close half the restaurant. He doesn't even drink wine there anyways.
- californiagirl - 10-20-2006
Yoshi- .. and this is coming from someone who lives CLOSE by.. 20 min from your work. If you feel confident in doing so.. I would recommend to your manager that the wine list is lacking in the above mentioned white wines. Depending on what is ordered, most of the choices wouldn't be on the top of my list. Or I would bring my own.
Being said, I could find a wine to my liking from your wine list, but why not give the guests the options.
- wdonovan - 10-20-2006
"...He doesn't even drink wine there anyways..."
Maybe he's smarter than we think. There's nothing on this list that excites me either. Aside from the obvious omissions, there should be a decent brut rosé on the carte de vin. Good chance I'd order a Billecart or VC brut rosé with a number of dishes here.
BTW For a corkage fee, can one bring one's own wine?
- Yoshi2all - 10-20-2006
Of course, but I dont know if recommending to my customers to bring their own wine will go over too well with the management -- although I guess corkage is free money, but a large possible oportunity cost. The more feedback I get the more I am starting to realize that they dont care about food pairing -- instead they just want a wine they know and probably drink with American food or no food at all.