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+--- Thread: 1997 (/thread-19200.html)
- nashdog - 06-16-2002
I have always enjoyed wine. Although I am a Guinness drinker, wine is my second choice. I have always wanted a modest collection of wine at my disposal, and I have reached the point in my life that I am able to spend 25-50 a week on new bottles. I have heard and tasted a rumor about reds from 1997. More than one person in many different locations has told me that 97 may have been the best year in wine history for the red grape. Is this true?
Also, I have about 20ish bottles now, and I am buying on instinct and some name recognition. I go after the Mondavi's, Turning Leaf, Eco Di Moni, Luna's,Mezza Corona and Sterling to name a few. I would appreciate any input on building a better, broader collection.
Last but not least, I was in a Italian restaurant and had a bottle of "Stone Street"? I think this was it. It was about $100, and was great. I have not been able to find this label anywhere. Can someone help me on this as well?
Thank you and I look forward to any input you have.
- winoweenie - 06-16-2002
Hi there Nashdog and welcome to the board. You are on the right track. 97 was indeed one of the 2 best vintages in Calif history. If you'll go back on the cabernet thread a year you'll find lots of info on it. As far as the vintage goes, there may still be some re-releases of the top wines as it was a bumper crop. The 98s' are out in full bloom and the 99s' are arriving now. Buy 99s is generally the advice now. As far as the Stonestreet, the "Legacy" is a great bottle, but even on release may be a little pricy for you. Also, just because 97 was a great vintage doesn't guarantee ALL wines with the 97 on the lable are great wines. The Turning Leaf is made for consumption on release and will not stand the test of time. If the Mondave and Sterling are the Napa bottlings they have good structure. Don't wind up with some expensive vinegar. Good Luck WW
- visionsof - 06-17-2002
WW question:
In regards to the Turning Leaf, by not "standing the test of time" do you mean that it basically has a shelf life? If so how long would you estimate and what would be the detrimental effect on the wine? Thanks!
-J
- wondersofwine - 06-17-2002
Turning to vinegar as WW says would be the result if left too long. Turning Leaf should probably be consumed within a year of purchase (once the vintage is released to stores).
If you want to add red burgundies to your collection, 1999 was a good year and some of the 99's are still available (2000 is starting to appear also). Good village wines such as Gevrey-Chambertin or Chambolle-
Musigny might be found for under $30. Premier crus wines such as Morey-St.-Denis
Millandes or Volnay 1er Cru might be available for $30-50 a bottle. Many of the 99's are enjoyable now but could age for another decade and perhaps develop more complexity as they mature.
- Innkeeper - 06-17-2002
This whole business of starting collections has to be repeated from time to time. Here is a quote from Andrea Immer's "Wine Buying Guide for Everyone": "Ninety-five percent of the quality wines on the market are meant to be consumed within one to three years of the harvest (the vintage date on the label), while they are young, fresh, and in good condition. Most wines do not get better with age, so why wait?"
Not much to add to that. Only that most wine are released at the time they are ready, e.g. right now cabernet sauvignon from the 1999 harvest is being released. If you pay less than $20 for one, it is very likely to be ready to drink. So, for starting collections, you not only have to pick a type of wine, you also have to pick a quality bottling that will age well, or put another way, will get better with aging.
The grapes that age well can almost be counted on one hand. There is cabernet sauvignon and blends (e.g. Bordeaux); there is nebbiolo from Piedmont; there is a small amount of sangiovese (e.g. Brunello); there is a small amount of syrah (Upper Rhones); and a tiny amount of pinot noir (from tiny Burgundy communes). To start on the second hand, throw in petite sirah. Notice that there are no whites on this list. OK if you pay over $200 for a White Burgundy you might age it a couple of years.
Price does not necessarily determine quality, but it is very difficult to find any of the above wines for less than $20 that are worth aging. OK collectively we could post hundreds of exceptions here, but most are difficult to find. A couple that come to mind are Chateau Les Fiefs de Lagrange, St Julien; and Rosemount Hill of Gold Cabernet Sauvignon. Will also throw any petite sirah that runs more than $15.
Still talking about a very small amount of wine here is the scheme of things. Remember that 95% of all wine is ready to go when you buy it, and "Most wines do not get better with age."
- Botafogo - 06-17-2002
>> The grapes that age well can almost be counted on one hand.<<
IK, I know you be an odd duck but do you have enough fingers on that hand for:
Aglianico (The Barolo of the South)
Corvina (in the form of Amarone)
Semillon (no whites? Pa-leeeeeze)
Verdicchio (ditto)
Great terroir driven Riesling
Sylvaner (I have tasted 20 year old babies)
Chenin Blanc in its rich, late harvest form
Furmint (Tokai)
Nero d'Avola
Lagrein
Teroldego
Carignane
Mourvedre
Sagrantino (perhaps the longest lived of all)
Montepulciano (we are selling 20 vintages of Pepe)
Tempranillo (heard of Vega Sicilia?)
Tinto Naçional and other Porto Varietals in both fortified and dry versions
Pinot Noir and Chardonnay (serious white Burgs & top Bubblies???)
ect....
I would say this discussion should be less about grape varietals and more about terroir and winemaking decisions, Roberto
BUT, of course, MOST wine is meant to drunk poste haste and most winemakers know that the general public has no patience anymore...
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 06-17-2002).]
- Thomas - 06-17-2002
Roberto once again brings up an interesting counterpoint to prevailing wisdom.
Nashdog, why a collection? Is it for you in your old age, for you to have around when company calls, for you to make a financial investment (which you will never realize with the list of wines you posted), for you to enjoy wines only when at their peak?
As you see, there are many reasons for collecting wine, but there is really only one reason for buying wine--to consume it. I drink at least half, often a full, bottle daily. My "collection" hovers around ten cases of wine, most of which are ready to be consumed. I have this theory that life is so damned random that if I were to leave some of the great wines of the world in my cellar and then find I was cut down too soon by the arbitrary nature of the universe, I will have missed drinking those wines, and that would be the biggest sin I could commit against nature and against myself.
I always recommend that people collect stocks and bonds; leave wine for consumption.
OK, all you Cabernet and Pinot Noir collectors who just spent a fortune on the cellar, weigh in on me...
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 06-17-2002).]
- nashdog - 06-17-2002
Thank you all again for your comments and input.
The main reason for starting a collection is mostly for my own enjoyment. As I mentioned, I am a Guinness drinker at heart. I went through the micro-brew craze with everyone in the mid 90's, but ended up falling for the "G". Although it is not something that I can open and plan on being hit with a new flavor, I do enjoy it.
I worked in a classy restaurant as a kid and found myself intrigued with the way the owner would get excited when he found a rare bottle or case at an auction or a supplier. I tried a few glasses and before I knew it, I was hooked.
Please do not get me wrong, I enjoy the wines that I have found and there are a few I love. But I am more or less looking to expand on my own personal selection and thought, like most people, the more you spend the better the wine. I would like to buy a few bottles to put away for special occasions later in life, but my main mission here is simply to expand my own taste and knowledge on wines.
Again, thank you all for your time and input.
John
[This message has been edited by nashdog (edited 06-17-2002).]
- Innkeeper - 06-17-2002
Roberto, thanks again for your wealth of information. But, once again, my posts are for folks who shop at the corner winestore.
For those of you who shop at the corner winestore and want some of which he speaks, e-mail him at WineExpo@earthlink.com and get on the list.
- hotwine - 06-17-2002
I'm with you, Foodie. But forget stocks for now; buy bonds & real estate.
[This message has been edited by hotwine (edited 06-17-2002).]
- winedope1 - 06-17-2002
Nashdog- I'll add my welcome to you. I am, considering the wealth of time and knowledge amassed here, a novice at wine. I have a " collection" at home. This consists of my favorite wines and those of my closest friends, so that if we decide on a meal at the last minute, I have something good on hand to bring. I have not the knowledge, nor the storage facility to do much else. The wines that I keep in my rack will be consumed within a year- most sooner. I follow what tastes good to me, which is , after all , what should guide you, beyond the basic good advice you will undoubtedly get here. If a wine type that I like is recommended here, I will get it or order it to try. The other thing that might be hlpful is to keep a notebook of wines you have enjoyed or wine types recommended here that appeal to you. Then when you are in a wine shop, you will have a guide. Enjoy yourself, that is the key. PS- these people know what they are about, so if they steer you away from a big financial investment, best to listen. : )