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+--- Thread: Cabernet question (/thread-18995.html)
- robr - 09-11-2005
Hi,
I have a question, which probably has a very complicated answer, but I'm going to ask anyway.
Why is it that French reds from Bordeaux, (which are nothing more than Cabernet and Merlot and Cab Franc mixed) take five, ten, fifteen, twenty years before they are approachable, whereas I can find any one of dozens of California Cabernet Sauvignons or Merlots which are only two or three years old, and are ready to drink right now?
BK
- Thomas - 09-11-2005
You are correct--a question that has no simple answer.
The answer lies in a couple places, not the least fo which is the actual place where the grapes are grown; that place (plus certain growing techniques) determines the ripeness and tannins at harvest.
And after harvest, the winemaking style--skin contact time, pressing techniques, et al, play a large role in the wine's life profile.
Many of those West Coast approachable red wines are manipulated differently than the reds of Bordeaux. Some (me included) find that the truly early achievers, the big reds that are approachable nearly a day after bottling, often come with high aclohol, gobs of fruit, and minimal staying power to allow them to age gracefully, as many Bordeaux reds do.
With all that explanation, your question still requires a more complex answer...
- robr - 09-11-2005
Thanks Foodie,
So, it sounds like a matter of geographical differences and ripeness, mostly. I'm sure the maker's process must have a lot to do with it also.
Anybody else care to add their expertize?
- Innkeeper - 09-11-2005
Most of the less expensive Bordeaux are approachable or near it on release. Talking about those at $15 or less. Above that most including second or third labels from the big houses, such as Les Fiefs de Lagrange that runs in the $16-$17 range, require more time on them as you state.
When you pick up a bottle that is in the lower price range ask the prop how approachable it is. I've been told things like, "Hold it for six months." Have not been skunked too many times this way.
- hotwine - 09-11-2005
There are so many factors that are different between CA and BDX.... climate, terroir, grape clones, winemaking skills, to name a few. Too many CA Cab producers use overripe fruit, ferment it quickly and give it minimum aging in order to reach the market as quickly as possible. Why tie up inventory and storage facilities when the market doesn't demand it? While many BDX producers take the long view... they don't mind committing inventory to long-term storage to develop the product to its peak.
Kind of like the difference between a Vegas showgirl and a Marlene Dietrich, in my own irreverent opinion.
- robr - 09-11-2005
Thanks Hottie,
And while were on the subject, I have read that TX is producing some very good cabs. Why don't I ever see any for sale down here in Florida?
[This message has been edited by bernkastler (edited 09-11-2005).]
- winoweenie - 09-11-2005
To chip in my 2centavos Bern. IMHO there's little difference in the ageing abilities of the mass produced West Coast Cabs and Bordeaux. They are made to be enjoyed on release in both cases. 90% of all wine made is produced to be drunk on Tuesday after release. What I've found is that the mass Ca. wine, because of their abundant fruit, has more loveability than the more austere Bordeaux. When you take the growths from 5th to 1st and compare them with their American quality counterparts they age very comparably. Unfortunately, or Fotunately depending on your view, we don't have a classification system so it's speculative and opinionated as to which vineyards in America should be rated where. I have my own opinion but it wont make a lot of difference if I need a Starbucks and forgot my wallet. WW
- robr - 09-11-2005
WW,
I was with you up till this last sentence:
"I have my own opinion but it wont make a lot of difference if I need a Starbucks and forgot my wallet."
I don't get the metaphor.
- hotwine - 09-11-2005
I've not found a good TX Cab yet. Passable, yes, but not good. The best so far was a barrel sample of the '04 vintage Cab at Woodrose Winery near Stonewall about three months ago.... tiny production, sells only to restaurants in the area, and now the place has been sold, so no telling what will happen to quality. Also no telling how that barrel sample will develop.... could nose-dive to oblivion on release. I have one lonely bottle in the cellar.... when I raved about the barrel sample, the owner pulled off a single bottle for me, made a label on the spot, and allowed me to take it in exchange for a $20 bill. I'll try to keep it until at least '07, but we'll see.
- winoweenie - 09-12-2005
Berm just my way of saying my opinion normally wont get enough reward to buy a cup of coffee. WW
- jmcginley1 - 09-14-2005
I know this is a gross over-simplification, but when it comes to cabernet based wines, the more expensive the wine, the more ageworthy it tends to be, in both Cali and Bordeaux. Very few(probably none) $10 bottles were made in a style with the propper balance of acidity, tannins, and overall structure to age for more than a few years. They were made to be drinkable upon release (as 95% of wines are made). Your grander wines, Ridge's "Monte Bello," Stag Leap's "Cask 23," Chateau Petrus, and other wines that typically cost over $100 at release were made to be aged. At release they are often barely drinkable, with a wall of tannins that requires years to soften, revealing all of the fruit of the wine.
This being said, some more expensive wines (Jordan and Simi come to mind) are made to be drank now, and some chaper wines do benifit greatly from age. These are exceptions to the rule.
[This message has been edited by jmcginley1 (edited 09-14-2005).]
- wondersofwine - 09-15-2005
Yes, a Simi winemaker told me they do active tannin management (destemming the more tannic clusters, etc.) to make the wines more approachable earlier.