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+--- Thread: Help us with some French Burgundies please (/thread-17782.html)
- pinot evil - 03-26-2006
My wife and I are ready to branch out into the confusing world of French wine. Since we love domestic pinot noir, I think that French Burgundies would be the way to go (please correct me if I'm wrong.) And since you don't know us, I thought I'd jot down some domestic pinot noirs that we like a lot so you can tell what our tastes are like: Echelon, King Estate, La Crema, Frei Bros. & Firesteed (in approximate order.) What French Burgundies would be like (that would be readily available at local wine shops for, say, $20 of less?)
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
-Robert
- Innkeeper - 03-26-2006
Hi Robert, and welcome to the Wine Board. I'm far from being a Burgundy expert, and hopefully a couple of them will come along.
Having said that one thing I do know for sure is that buying Burgundy these days is a gamble. There are many reasons for this including the fragmentation of vineyards due to inheritance, and various crackdowns and regulations by the EU, among others. What this has resulted in is a wine may be wonderful one year, and be terrible the next not entirely due to weather.
If you are happy with the left coast Pinots you are currently drinking, stick with them. You might venture into the offerings from Australia and New Zealand, some of which are exciting, but rarely in the under $20 range. They are made more in the American than the French style.
One Burgundy that stays quite consistent year in out comes from the large negociant Joseph Drouhin. His Laforet (Pinot Noir) is widely available, and sells for around $12-$14.
- dananne - 03-26-2006
Welcome to the board!
Burgundy can be a lot of fun to explore, but also maddening for several reasons. First of all, there is often a real (as opposed to imagined) price/quality ratio, so the better Burgs tend to soar quite higher than $20. Second, it really can be hit-or-miss with quality. It helps to narrow the search a bit by tasting before buying (find a reputable wine shop that offers tastings, if possible, to explore that way -- it is cheaper than random, blind purchases). Also, with Burgundy, vintages really do mean something. Another thing is that they sometimes show best after a bit of bottle age, which would differ a bit from those domestic producers you mentioned, most of which show well on release. Finally, there is a myriad of label stuff that you have to get to know, particularly geographic information, that will help you narrow your tastes as you explore.
As for specific recs, at that price range you may be best off exploring some basic Bourgogne wines -- for example, Joseph Drouhin makes one called Vero. The '02 sells for about $20. Not sure about availability, buy you could try a Santenay from Jadot for a comparison. It'll run about $24.
Another member such as Wondersofwine may chime in with some additional specific recommendations.
Enjoy your exploring!
- brappy - 03-27-2006
IK was a little quicker with his fingers... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
- TheEngineer - 03-27-2006
Ditto on Joseph Drouhlin especially for the price. Good Burgundy, even regular ones, generally start rather north of that and seriously good ones are well into the triple digits.... For decent values, Lafon does a very good Monthelie and also look for bottles from Santenay which tend to be cheaper than other more famous regions.
- wondersofwine - 03-27-2006
I have to agree with what others have said. I have enjoyed several Santenay wines. Also, if you can find it, the 2002 Frederic Magnien Morey-St-Denis "Les Herbuottes" is very nice. I think the price I paid was more like $25.
One of the problems with recommending Burgundies is that availability varies greatly in different cities. The ones I purchase in North Carolina may not be in the shops in Dayton, Ohio and vice versa. It's not like a huge conglomerate like Banfi that may have their Italian wines in cities all across the nation. Production may be limited to 1000 cases or less for worldwide distribution.
[This message has been edited by wondersofwine (edited 03-27-2006).]
- wdonovan - 03-27-2006
negociants - Drouhin, also Nicolas Potel is selling very good QPR wines in the low range ~$20 (but go up to $30 once or twice to see some real Burgs).
Villages - Santenay, Mercurey, Savigny, Marsannay, all away from the pricey neighborhoods and good QPR.
Also look for just plain Burgundy appelations and some touted "Pinot Noir" (from Burgundy of course).
- andypandy - 03-27-2006
"pinot evil" =best moniker I've seen on this board
- andypandy - 03-27-2006
Can I add my enquiries to this thread? I've been interested in sticking my toe into a glass of French pinot as well, but French just intimidates me. Here's the burgundies that are available to me here in Utah in my price range; I was wondering if there was one or two of these anyone would particularly recommend:
BRUNO CLAIR MARSANNAY GR TETE'03 $28.6
DOM ROCHEBIN BOURGOGNE PINOT'03 $12.45
FAIVELEY PINOT NOIR'02 $14.95
LABOURE-ROI MAXIMUM PINOT'03 $12.95
MOREY SANTENAY PASSETEMPS'01 $17.70
MOREY SANTENNAY ROUGE VV'02 $26.6
PONSOT BOURGOGNE CUV PINSON'02 $23.2
V GIRARDIN EM TERROIRS ROUGE'03 $21.5
V GIRARDIN SANTENAY GRAVIERES'03 $31.3
V GIRARDIN SAVIGNY PEUILLETS'03 $27.9
(Yup, that's a complete list of every burgundy under ~$30 available in Utah).
- pinot evil - 03-27-2006
andypandy-
Pinot Evil is the name of a $5.99 French pinot noir that I found at Jungle Jim's, a huge unique food store near Cincinnati with a football field sized wine wing. Ironically, that pinot wasn't bad at all - very subtle, but I've had a lot worse at 3x the price. The label on the bottle shows three monkeys: See no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil. And the name of the wine - PINOT evil! I bought it for the bottle - thought the wine would be horrid, but at least I could display that fantastic label design. The wine was a bonus. I also picked up some 3 Blind Moose merlot. The label was similarly funny, but the wine was undrinkable.
Cheers!
- dananne - 03-27-2006
Yes, I was beaten by IK's fingers [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
Andypandy: Of the ones listed, I have only had a few wines from Girardin (unfortunately none that are listed), but have had good experiences.
- wdonovan - 03-28-2006
Not too impressed aith low end LABOURE-ROI offerings. I would try the santanays and Savigny though for reasons I wrote above.
- andypandy - 03-28-2006
According to the Wine Enthusiast's vintage chart, the '97 to '99 Burgundy vintages are just beginning to peak and the '02 and '03 are listed as "hold". Does that mean that if I buy a 2003 now I will need to keep it for another 4 years before I can open that baby up, or are some of the cheaper productions ready for more immediate consumption?
[This message has been edited by andypandy (edited 03-28-2006).]
- wondersofwine - 03-28-2006
I really like Bruno Clair's style so would normally recommend the Marsannay (I have had his rose' wine from Marsannay and it was excellent). However, the '03 summer in Europe was very hot and the grapes and resulting wine may not be typical. You can drink most 2002 and 2003 now before they go into a closed phase. If you don't drink them this year you might want to hold them until 2010 or 2011 when they should emerge again (actually that rule of thumb is more for the Premier Cru wines. Some of the village wines may be for earlier drinking and may be over-the-hill by 2010.)
- barnesy - 03-28-2006
I agree whole heartedly on the Vincent Girardin recommendations. You can get some wonderful bargain 1er cru wines in the mid 30's and sometimes high 20's. Well worth the little extra over your range.
Barnesy
- andypandy - 03-29-2006
Well, in my current financial situation, I have to draw the line somewhere. Having just graduated from college in December and still looking for a "real" job, let's just say that my discretionary spending has to be severely limited. I can't justify spending more than $30 retail on a single bottle of wine on my current income.
Will a Cru burgougne necessarily be better than a villages burgougne? One day, I tell you, one day I will be able to try the Amarones and Barolos and Bordeauxs and icewines und burgundies and champagnes. One day.
- wondersofwine - 03-29-2006
A cru bourgogne will not necessarily be better than a village wine but the chances improve if you know a little of the producer and vintage track record. As I think someone said, there often is a correlation between price and quality in Burgundy. I had a beautiful village wine from Chambolle Musigny a while back that probably outclasses a lot of the premier cru Burgundies but that is the exception. It was a 2002 Digioia-Royer Chambolle Musigny and probably wouldn't be that easy to find.
- andypandy - 03-30-2006
Let me just say that I am constantly amazed by y'all's knowledge. There is so much to know! Allow me to represent all of the wine acolytes and say a big THANK YOU to you very knowledgeable folks who come to this board and contribute so much to educating the rest of us. As little as I know about wine (next to nothing), I actually know more about it than anyone I know personally. That means that y'all and Andrea Immer have been my best guides into this rather intimidating wine world.
- winoweenie - 03-31-2006
Just heard a loud "Harumph" as Jerry turned over and gruffly said " That's what this board was meant for...Silly". WW [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]