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+--- Thread: Wine flavors and aromas (/thread-17239.html)
- girlperson1 - 01-24-2003
I've read about wines having flavors such as "cherry and plum" as well as having aromas such as smoke, tobacco and leather. How do these flavors and aromas end up in the wine if it's just made from grapes?
- Auburnwine - 01-24-2003
Alas, it is not the beauty of the Burgundian sky (or the proximity of koala bears) that gives a wine its flavors. It is the mixture of some 200 chemicals that occur in varying ratios and quantities.
The variety of the grapes that are used, the weather, the soil, the treatment during harvesting, aging, processing, and everything else contribute to what ends up in that little glass of chemicals that we sniff and taste.
When those chemicals are nice, we relish the suggestion of jasmine or cherry or leather or any of the other aromas to which we might associate the taste. To name those associations is part of the fun.
Wine is much more than squeezed, rotten grapes. It is an exercise of the senses and of memory. To find it less would be like saying that a Gauguin is simply dabs of dried, liquified chrome yellow and terra rosa.
Christmas smells like oranges and New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc smells like guavas.
- Innkeeper - 01-24-2003
Kiwi SB can also smell like cat pee. Having said that, I have found that once you get past that, the rest can be wonderful and enjoyable.
- Auburnwine - 01-24-2003
Damn, IK, you actually fell for it at the 4th of July picnic when we substituted the glass of warm cat pee for your Brancott?
- stevebody - 01-25-2003
The flavors you mentioned can also occur in other parts of the vinifying process. Grapes are like little sponges, even after they're crushed. The old French practice of fermenting in concrete vats led to some fabulously "minerally" wines (duh). My friend Martin Clubb at L'Ecdole No. 41 here in WA state makes a little Bordeaux blend called Schoolhouse Red that has tasted, in several vintages, distinctly of fresh dill (LOVELY!!). Come to find out that one of the source vineyards from which he bought grapes was right next to a field of...fresh dill. Now that he grows his own Merlot, the wine is missing that. Damnit.
The organic compounds in the grapes themselves can mimic a huge range of flavors with no manipulation at all. It's just why some of us are so nutso about wine.
- girlperson1 - 01-25-2003
I had read somewhere on the Internet that during the fermentation process, esters are produced which account for the various flavors and aromas that we preceive in wine. Different species of yeast will yield different esters.
These esters are "interpreted" by our brain. There really isn't chocolate in wine, but an ester can be present which will give the wine a chocolate aroma, the very same ester that will give chocolate it's own aroma as well. Yeast can be your friend!!
- Kcwhippet - 01-25-2003
Exactly right, Girlperson.
- winoweenie - 01-26-2003
Wow! girlperson, question asked and answered. I object. WW [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
- girlperson1 - 01-26-2003
(Blushing)...
Well, I intended to read up on it and I did!! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
- joeyz6 - 01-26-2003
About the dill plants next to the grape vines ... is this really possible? Can fruit trees or flowers, etc., actually affect the tastes that result in the wine? I kind of figured that this was an old wives' tale.
- Kcwhippet - 01-26-2003
Joey,
Apparently the grapes can pick up the essence of what's grown nearby. For the life of me I can't remember the winery, but there are eucalyptus trees bordering one winery's vineyard and the wine picks up a hint of the eucalyptus. The winery insists it's because of the proximity of the the tree roots to the grape vines, but someone else suggests some of the trees' volatile oils have settled on the grapes and get into the wine that way.
[This message has been edited by Kcwhippet (edited 01-26-2003).]
- winoweenie - 01-26-2003
KC the vineyard is " Marthas' Vineyard " of Heitz cellars fame. There is NO proof that shows environment affects the grapes. Every scientific study shows negative. The only thing that can affect the grape quality is terrior. The vineyard on the west of Marthas' is owned by the Komes and Garveys of Flora Springs and their wines are devoid of the " Mint " prevelant in the Marthas' bottling. Has a great story line but no substance. WW
- Kcwhippet - 01-26-2003
Didn't make a lot of sense to me, either. I sort of thought the eucalyptus oil dripping on the grapes was more believable.
- stevebody - 01-27-2003
Go back to Chem 101, guys. Esters can be airborne transmitted if present in sufficient concentration, roughly 400+ PPM. It's the same principle that allows onions to stink up cheeses wrapped up in a fridge or makes your lettuce wind up smelling of garlic. With a good but gentle breeze, days on end of saturation and a strong enough esters profile - like dill or eucalyprus - grapeskins, which are the very definition of permeable membranes, can pick up scents from adjacent plants. This from the Virginia Tech viniculture research program, which was studying the effect of VA's massive pine forests on the state's vieyards.
- joeyz6 - 01-27-2003
Steve, your explanation makes sense, but I'm not sure about that cheese/onion comparison, because it's not like you ferment the cheese and add a bunch of chemicals after it's been exposed to the onion odor. And what did the Virginia study conclude?
- wondersofwine - 01-27-2003
I read recently of a vineyard (I believe in France) that was planted next to a field of violets and picked up violet aromas.
- Thomas - 01-28-2003
Joeyz, in my experience, I find that Stevebody is right on with his inrepretation of the matter. The soil, the wind, the fermentation, the various yeasts, and the many compounds in grapes conspire to create the myriad esters.
The esters are generally what causes us to "taste" the flavors. You cannot taste without smell.
- stevebody - 01-30-2003
Joey,
According to my uncle, who is on the board of trustees of VA Tech, the study was mainly a way to skim some federal grant money. But the heart of it was that one primary characteristic of the developing VA wine trade was that the wines frequently show a definite pine-cedar-spruce note that is a nice touch and something many of the vintners want to enhance. The study found out that vineyards directly adjacent to deciduous forests - which is most of the vineyards in the western and central parts of the state - did indeedy show those flavors. Just as Rhones frequently show all those lavender fields that abut their vineyards. My family's own grapes in Giles County, VA, show cedar like a bandit, which is a surprisingly jazzy note on those chard grapes.