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+--- Thread: les hauts de pontet paudillac 1983 (/thread-17096.html)
- diamondsman - 11-06-2003
you still didnot answer my question???
- Thomas - 11-06-2003
You have your answer about the wine; you don't want to hear it; why would I believe you want to hear anything else that is true?
I think you need to look elsewhere.
- diamondsman - 11-06-2003
who makes you the expert??? and who are you to tell me to look elsewhere? maybe you should go elsewhere as you cant even prove that you are an expert or have any knowledge in wines.Also please don't need your rude comments as i don't think that you understand about wines at all from your posting.
You have not even described how you "understand " about wines.
- Innkeeper - 11-06-2003
The person who goes by the handle Foodie here has run a vineyard, has run his own winery, currently runs a very trendy wine store, has written a best selling book on wine, and has has written numerous articles in both popular and professional press. He also has an extensive background in conducting wine appreciation courses for private and corporate clients. Other participants on this board have equal or better credentials.
We have all learned that the more one learns about wine, the more there is to find out. So, we are very careful about using the term expert. May not be experts, but certainly qualified to answer most of the questions we get here, including yours. Take care.
- Kcwhippet - 11-06-2003
I wasn't going to reply to this request to prove my expertise, particularly after having spent 39 years as a wine lover and the past 18 involved in the business in some form or another. So, I won't.
- Thomas - 11-06-2003
Incidentally KC, you did an admirable job at explaining the 1983 vintage and how you know it was a bad year--just wanted you to know that somebody accepts your information's validity.
- Kcwhippet - 11-06-2003
Thanks, Foodie. It comes from many, many years of experience, schooling and research developing the expertise. You're no slouch yourself.
- wondersofwine - 11-06-2003
I recall only one time when I returned a wine in a restaurant--and then it was certainly not one that cost hundreds of dollars. A Mosel wine in a German restaurant tasted like water (what causes that anyway? oxidation?) The waitress seemed skeptical but took the glass away and had someone in the kitchen test the bottle. She came back apologizing and offering me a decent glass of wine from another bottle.
(I should have asked for my money back on the Silverado Sauvignon Blanc that tasted like a tongue depressor. I was hoping that the waitress would ask why I still had a full glass of wine and maybe offer a refund or substitution but she took the glass away without a word to me).
- winoweenie - 11-06-2003
Guys after rereading the posts from this individual have come to the conclusion that without a doubt he is either one of two things; 1) a teen-ager(and from his spelling I lean toward this) or 2) A complete idiot who thinks by playing Devils Advocate he is showing how smart he is(n't). Believe this is one of those threads that deserves to be closed and forgotten.WW
- tandkvd - 11-06-2003
Amen
- wineguruchgo - 11-06-2003
Ok - here is a vintage chart from Wine Spectator on Bordeaux in 1983. The vintage got 86 points out of 100. As I've said before even the best producers can only produce the best wines of the vintage. Weather really does play a part here and it appears that mother nature wasn't nice to them that year.
Hopefully Wine Spectators opinion will count for something here and this can be put to rest. If not, try winebids.com. They will probably be able to tell you if it can be sold.
1990 97 Opulent, well structured and harmonious Hold
1989 98 Bold, dramatic fruit character; tannic and long-aging Hold
1988 93 Typical structure; racy, fruity wines, firm tannins. Best in Pessac-Léognan, Pomerol, Pauillac Drink or hold
1987 76 Delicate, ripe yet diluted Drink
1986 95 Powerful, intense and tannic; best in Médoc Hold
1985 93 Balanced, supple and fruity; defines finesse Drink or hold
1984 70 Unripe, astringent and dry; most fading Drink
1983 86 Rich and ripe in fruit and tannins; some overly tannic Drink
1982 95 Intense ripe fruit and generous in style; plenty of round tannins. St.-Julien and St.-Emilion stand out Drink or hold
1970 91 Excellent all-around vintage; structured, with lots of fruit Drink or hold
1961 99 Best since 1945; great concentration and structure Drink or hold
- diamondsman - 11-06-2003
thank you for the last reply winegroucho , Now that proves somthing about your knowledge as you brought in some of the facts.
As far as winoweenie is concerned I think that his remarks are uncalled for as not all of us are "graduates" of berkley or oxford like he is. especially in his tutoring on wine(or my spelling) maybe he is a professor
in the above subjects,At any rate I think that he should do as he said and not continue on this thread as he is not welcomed!!!!!(by me any way) .especially after his rude remarks on me being a child.
Either you prove your point without nasty remarks "professor"or do'nt participate!!!!You are the idiot that is sucking up to everyone else,who have commented, and not even answered once a direct answer to the subject.
I think I have made this thread very intersting and I just want some validity on the subject.
winegroucho has brought the best facts so far and I respect him for it and consider him as the "expert" so far, my question to him is : Is 86 out of 100 bad??? if yes where does it start not being a bad year?
I dont mean to sound rude like winowinnie (which by the way I think the last part of his name describes him/her).
[This message has been edited by diamondsman (edited 11-06-2003).]
- Kcwhippet - 11-07-2003
I love it!! Now the diamond dude either can't read or he's now insulting wineguruchgo. Hey diamond - he's not winegroucho!!! BTW, we've all done our research as well as wineguruchgo, we just didn't reproduce it from a publication verbatim.
- diamondsman - 11-07-2003
I apologise for writing his name wrong,
But why are you being sarcastic again!!are you also one of those know it all and everyone else is not.
Why didn't you produce the facts like wineguruchgo, isn't this what this board is about??
[This message has been edited by diamondsman (edited 11-07-2003).]
- wineguruchgo - 11-07-2003
Diamondsman - in the industry wines that get below 90pts are not considered excellent. Wine above 95pts are considered to be exceptional.
I would calm down, make a nice dinner tonight, open the bottle and enjoy it.
That vintage really isn't going to garner any money for you so I would pop it open. Just my opinion. Again, if you would like to roll the dice, try winebids.com and see if you get any takers.
- quijote - 11-07-2003
Diamondsman, I understand your interest in having "hard facts" to bolster ideas, but the people on the board don't always start out their replies with such data. If they did, the posts would be incredibly long and difficult to get through, for most people.
As this is a reasonably informal board sponsored by wines.com, most novices--myself included--accept that the longtime posters know what they're talking about, especially when compared to the knowledge of the novice. Between KC, Foodie, Winoweenie, and Innkeeper alone, there are about 15,000 posts in the archives going back just a few years. If they didn't know what they were talking about, they could not possibly be so prolific, and they also take care to comment and correct each others' claims. In other words, they have a good track record and control system of authority and expertise here.
Also, the Wine Spectator numbers are good, but where do you suppose those numbers come from? They come from people--presumed "experts." How do you know _they_ are correct? There's an intro book called "Wine for Dummies" (which I use a lot 'cuz I'm a wine dummie), and their vintage chart for Bordeaux is similar to the Wine Spectator chart, but not exactly.
In any case, I have found this forum successful and helpful because of the presence of several experts and other well informed people, all of whom contribute different ideas and facts to the Big Discussion.
By the way, Innkeeper--Happy 5,000+!
[This message has been edited by quijote (edited 11-07-2003).]
- ShortWiner - 11-07-2003
Yep, everyone who's responded knows what he or she is talking about. I trust the regulars on this board more than I'd trust any magazine.
- Kcwhippet - 11-07-2003
Diamondsman,
I'll tell you why I'm being sarcastic. Over many, many years I've learned quite a lot about many aspects of grapegrowing, winemaking and wines. I've learned a lot by tasting over 1,000 wines a year at wineries, at the wine shop I work at, in restaurants and at home. I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything there is to know about wine. However, when I give an answer I make sure I really know the answer both from personal knowledge and from cross referencing to a number of sources. When you choose to impugn my integrity and question my veracity, you can be darn sure I'm gong to be sarcastic.
- Musky Dime - 11-07-2003
Another newbie here. Picked up another hobby early this year, making wine. My wife and I have really enjoyed the process of making different kinds of wine in 5 gallon carboys.We are up to 6 now. What's that, 30 gallons now? We bottle it, cork it and make custom labels. So far we made blackberry, muskadine, and two 28-day kits. The 28-day kits really aren't up to par(in my humble opinion) for about 60 days, which is still fairly quick for. Any wine makers out there?
- Innkeeper - 11-07-2003
Hi Musky Dime, and welcome to the Wine Board. I recommend you repost under the Home Winemaking thread at the bottom of the Board. Folks making their own wine, get more action there. Thanks.
FOR ALL: THE ONLY OTHER THREAD THAT GETS MORE ACTION THAN THE NOVICE THREAD IS THE ITALIAN THREAD, AND THAT IS BECAUSE THERE IS AN ITALIAN WINE EXPERT THAT ONLY VISITS THAT THREAD.