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+--- Thread: The recurrently "snooty" Wine Spectator (/thread-16503.html)
- pergamum - 05-30-2000
I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that wine drinking and collectiong is a hobby that should be relatively democratic. Put another way, I feel that everyone willing to sift through the abundance of information on fine wine should be permitted to reap the benefits of drinking fine wine!
There is a magazine out there--I won't mention any names (whoops already have)--that seems to market wine to the highest bidder. Articles on multi-million dollar auctions at Christie's (very informative, but, most of us don't attend these auctions) are coupled with the description of wines that run well above $35 on average (per bottle--a calculation made using 5 different issues).
Not all of us are collectors of the "First Growth" calibur!!! And, I know that there is affordable wine out there. So, for all of us imprisoned in our "piteous poverty," is there a publication that provides information on wine that costs under $20--ON A REGULAR BASIS!!!!! And, has anyone else experienced similar frustrations?--my ego is already very damaged from reading seven issues "of the aforementioned magazine," I need positive reassurance.
- Innkeeper - 05-30-2000
We subscribe to the aforementioned periodical as well as to Wines & Spirits and Wine Trader. Find the latter two more down to earth. Having said that we continue to subscribe to Wine Spectator for a few reasons. They have informative articles regularly, they have excellent columnists, and do review "Best Buys." Even some of their "Highly Recommended" are within our modest reach. Do share your frustration on a lot of their stuff though. Always skip right over the auction and collection sections, but think they could do a lot better with their travel and food articles. Rarely find a recommendation for a place to eat or drink that we can afford. The otherwise excellent recent feature article on Tuscany, fell way short in this regard. We know there are fine places to stay in Tuscany that don't cost $300.00 a night.
[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 05-30-2000).]
- Thomas - 05-30-2000
The wine industry in America, the one that complains not enough consumers drink wine, continues to market products as if only the special should partake. Such magazines are funded by advertisers.
It is too much work, and too long a process to both educate and go after the plebian--much more fun to complain and sell upscale.
One reason Jerry Mead was a refreshing cry in the wilderness was his regard for all wines and for all consumers.
My suggestion: stop buying magazines you do not like and do more of your own research--attend tastings, start a wine club that meets regularly and hook up with good retailers (oops, you are in PA, where state monopoly stores are the antithesis to retailing).
- Thomas - 05-30-2000
I don't know how I placed Binghamton in PA, but seems I did....
- winoweenie - 05-30-2000
Jerry`s place in the wine trade is going to be one heck of a challenge for one and all. He not only tried to maintain an even hand in his his reporting of wine but went the extra mile to find those rare jewels at every price range that rewarded all who listened. He chided the industry about their pricing policies, not that any listened.As the Speculator kept moving prices to the stratosphere with their idiot ratings,Jerry somehow kept finding that 10-15 dollar jewell thatwas a great guzzle. Maybe someone can persuade Dan Berger to give us his insight and palate and continue Curmster`s Direction. It looks like the Wine Trader and Jerrys` kids will survive. Dang-Burn It ! I`m through. Winoweenie
- hotwine - 05-30-2000
I'm frustrated by WS, too. But like Innkeeper, I subscribe because they do publish interesting articles.
Bargain-hunting in wine shops takes a lot of time. And you've got to be willing to visit, look over their stock, and leave without making a purchase (as I did this evening). My suggestion is to set your price range, and watch for new ones of the types you prefer to come available. Then buy three bottles and try them with the foods with which they are traditionally paired. I bring home "strays" like that about once a week; some won't be bought again, but those that pass muster will be added to the routine stocking list. It's a way to expand my horizons without breaking the bank.
And quite honestly, there seem to be many more bargains among European wines than among those made here in the States. Which suits me just fine, for I consider too many domestic wines to be over-oaked, over-rated, and over-priced. And decidedly underwhelming.
- Drew - 05-30-2000
I subscribe also but predominantly participate in this board. More friendly, down to earth, informative responses. Long live Jerry's kids!!
Drew
- Caesar - 05-30-2000
I think hotwine's got the idea. I do occasionally try out a "Best Buy," but most of the bargains I find are found by a little educated eeny-meeny-miny-moe. I know the regions I like, recognize a name or classification, and take a chance. If you're dealing with $8-$10 bottles, it's almost like buy one, get two free. If you don't like one, so what? The satisfaction and suprise when you do come accross a real gem more than makes up for it.
Also, this board is prolly the best resource for bargain hunters, anyway. Saaaaaaalut!
Caesar.
- Bucko - 05-30-2000
Okay, here is a shameless plug for my wine reviews column, mainly on the less expensive wines. As many of you know, and for those who don't, I was the New Releases Editor for Wine Trader. Jerry helped get me started in wine writing years ago, then into wine judging, finally into doing new releases for his magazine. He taught me a lot about the wine business, and more importantly, he taught me that there are a LOT of good wines out there for less than $20, basically ending my days as a trophy hunter. I sure do miss him.
Currently, I receive about 90-120 bottles a month as samples, and I was at a real loss as to where the heck I was going to put the reviews, since the future of Wine Trader is so uncertain. I write for the Olympia, WA newspaper, but it cannot begin to handle the volume that I receive.
I called and talked to an old friend from Compuserve days, Robin Garr, and he said that he would be happy to have me do New Releases for his Wine Lovers' Page, which is vying with Wine Spectator as the most busy internet wine web site.
My wine review address over there is http://www.wineloverspage.com/bucko/
I do not like to give numerical ratings to wines, because people's tastes vary so much that it is futile. Wines that I think are really good for the price, I note as good values.
I hope that I do not PO anyone for the plug -- it is just a way to keep a bit of Jerry alive for me -- giving reviews for some decent wines that do not grab all of the spotlights like the cult wines do, but that also do not require a second mortgage to purchase. Hope some may prove useful, which is my whole purpose.
Bucko
- Randy Caparoso - 05-30-2000
Okay, as long as you're pluggin' away, Bucko: Good ol' Randy Caparoso can also be found at www.wine-lovers-page.com/randysworld. Enter if you dare.
As for mags: even a bigtime professional like me reads the Spectator. But you gotta take the good with the bad -- like with any magazine, come to think of it. Some things you can't stomach; others, very useful.
Unfortunately, even the the best of the wine geek mags -- International Wine Cellars, The Wine Advocate, Wines & Spirits, et al. -- are perpetually preoccupied with high falootin' wines. Finding a genuinely good buy is like sifting through the proverbial haystack. Then again, the reality is that genuinely good buys are a rare anyhow. Blame that on the international wine industry, not the writers. At least the Wine Spectator has a separate category for best values.
Other than that, the best way to discover good buys is through your own tasting, your friends and a trustworthy local retailer. In other words, the old fashioned way!
- pergamum - 05-31-2000
thank you all for your responses; tis a humbling experience. I agree most with those that begin by thinking of wine tasting as an experience fraught with repeated frustrations, and set against the occational gem; the "bouquet" of sucess (the cheese never ceases!) It is these individuals who complete the story of each wine tasting with the phrase "that was fun." If you'll pardon my ponitificating for a moment: these are the true wine connoisseurs. All other wine critics appear to be taking themselves too seriously as of late.
Take Matt Kramer of Wine Spectator for example. In the June 15th issue, he gives an interesting definition of a wineconnoisseur (in his warm, fuzzy, caustic manner) "the best definition I know of connosisseur is someone who can say, 'This is a great wine--but I can't stand it.' " Oh really Matt!!? It seems that Matt Kramer has inherited the golden senses of an ancient wine master, i.e., he knows what a good wine is even if he hates it (its kind of existential don't you think : ). Ingenuis--how does this work exactly? And all along, I thought wine drinking and editorials where supposed to be subjective experiences. Anyone care to chime in?
- Randy Caparoso - 05-31-2000
Matt Kramer is never a dull moment, I guess. However, the more you read him, the more apparent it becomes that this "golden sense" is truly something that exists in the mind -- his own. His outlook and opinions are certainly worth absorbing. But with caution. You'll find few writers as self-absorbed, and strangely disattached from more common courtesies (such as magnamity) of wine criticism.
- Innkeeper - 05-31-2000
Gentlemen. Tried both versions of your www.winelovers.com and neither came up.
- Bucko - 05-31-2000
Try again, Innkeeper -- they had a 2.5 hour power outage this a.m.
Bucko
- hotwine - 05-31-2000
Bucko, I appreciate that shameless plug, because I hadn't yet stumbled over the wineloverspage website.
Now, tell us: How in the world do you dispose of 90-120 bottles per month?? That must require an awful lot of entertaining, just to keep the cellar inventory under control....
- Bucko - 05-31-2000
I have a lot of happy neighbors. I'll taste 4 or 5 wines a night, gas the bottles, then pass them out to the neighbors. I learn, they learn. The trouble is that the neighbors are not as easy to slip a ho hum wine off on anymore!
Bucko
- winoweenie - 06-01-2000
Thanks to both Bucko and Randy for your web sites. Am putting them suckers on my favorites pages. Nothing to add on the thread as every thing I would say has done been writed. Winoweenie
- winecollector - 06-01-2000
Hey Bucko! How about letting us know if any of you neighbors houses go up for sale?
- Bucko - 06-01-2000
LOL!
[This message has been edited by Bucko (edited 06-01-2000).]