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+--- Thread: The wine Jesus used (/thread-16464.html)
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- alexlomb - 04-18-2002
Exactly what type of wine did Jesus use in the last supper? What is the best place in the work where I can buy this type of wine. I would apreciate it if you could answer this question as soon as posible.
Thank you,
Alejandro Lombardo
- Drew - 04-18-2002
He served an '28 AD Cab. from his personal vineyard, JC Cellars....Parker would have rated it a "Heavenly 100 pointer" [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
Drew
- winoweenie - 04-18-2002
Hi Alexlomb and welcome to the board. From the extensive research I've done on this subject, and to expand on Drews' post, the grapes came from the " Cloudy Bay " area and his " Star " winemaker was " Peter Michael " WW Hope this heps. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
- Thomas - 04-18-2002
I have it on good authority that the wine was produced by a fellow named Iscariot (it was a Tannat) and then he got mad for not getting his share of it...
- wondersofwine - 04-18-2002
While there were Roman officials around in Judah at the time, I don't know how easy it was to get Italian wines. He may have been serving Lebanese wines, a country that is still producing wines today. Or since he had the miracle of turning water into wine, maybe he just started with water from the well. An interesting question. A scholarly book on the history of wine from its earliest days or on living customs in Biblical times might come the closest to answering your question. Don't be surprised if there is no definitive answer. Archaeologists have discovered much about Biblical times but I'm not sure they have enough remaining grape DNA to name the wine.
- winedope - 04-18-2002
having a degree in archaeology, I can tell you that I have never seen any info on the type, producer, or vintage.
- winoweenie - 04-19-2002
Aren't you glad you found this tremendously informative site WD?. WW
- Innkeeper - 04-19-2002
It could be Syrah. It migrated from Persia to France and probably passed through the Holy Land. Besides it goes with Passover Lamb. Dobricic is the parent of Zinfandel, Primitivo, Plavac Mali and others and all have been grown all around the Med for centuries if not millennia. Then again He taught us not to zin.
The best possibility is unknown. At one time the entire Mediterranean shore including the Holy Land was like the Dalmaitan shore is today. Everybody had a grape arbor in the backyard and made their own wine. In Dalmatia if you ask folks what kind of grapes they have out back the will say that they are wine grapes.
- Bucko - 04-19-2002
<<Then again He taught us not to zin.>>
Go to your room..........
- Scoop - 04-19-2002
But aren't we all zinners?
Scoop
- winedope - 04-19-2002
ouch, guys, your puns are showing! Yes WW, I'm very glad to have found this site. ; )
- RAD - 04-19-2002
Not only do we have an archaeologist among us, but we also have a one-time classicist. I was going to go rumage through some of my old texts, but then figured--what the hey--I've got my fingers on the mother lode of texts right here.
Let it be known that there are those who believe that at the miracle of Cana, Jesus turned water into beer, not wine:
http://www.beerchurch.com/jesus.htm
[img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
RAD
- Bucko - 04-19-2002
There are also people (or were) who believe that comets and UFOs have a common thread.........
- Thomas - 04-20-2002
Geez RAD, if I still owned my winery I would have to change its name; I called it Cana Vineyards (its corporate name was The Cana Creation, Inc.) Beer, indeed!
As a point of scholarism: the Semitic word for wine in Jesus' days is likely to have been the same (or damned close) to the Pheonician word for wine, which was a direct reference to fermented grapes. And since the Greeks learned to make wine from Pheonicians, it is likely too that the interpretations of the New Testament (which were in Greek) included the word for wine and not for beer. So there!
Anyway, the question was not which wine was changed from water but which wine did Jesus serve at the last supper. My guess, aside from my feeble attempt at humor above, is that the wine was Lebanese (which of course would make it a product produced from descendants of the Phoenicians). The Lebanese valley has been a source of wine for quite a long time.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 04-20-2002).]
- winoweenie - 04-20-2002
And Serge Hochar is still producing some pretty derned good juice from his Beckka(sp)
valley vineyard. WW
- barnesy - 04-21-2002
Having degrees in history (ancient being my specialty) and the classics, I have studied my fair share of biblical greek. The stories of the last supper were not live recorded by the acting secretary. They were put down sometime within the next generation or two after Jesus's death, making them extremely closely dated to the source of the events (a rarity in ancient studies). This being said, I am pretty sure no one saved the menu.
This wasn't a rich lot of folks so they probably didn't head to the best restaurant with the best wine list. They probably didn't even know what was being served. Probably whatever the owner of the joint could get for the least money. Besides, there were more pressing matters at hand, so I doubt anyone was too concerned with the vino. All the same, it was a fun question.
Barnesy
The further back you go, the further off you are.
- winedope - 04-21-2002
good reply, Barnesy. It was a fun question and it produced some very interesting responses. Got degrees in archaeology and history and considered adding classical studies before I got to my real work. I studied them because I really enjoy them.
- Thomas - 04-22-2002
Go Barnsey! You got that right. Ever read Cahill's trilogy of histories? His bent is obvious, but he does a fair job at making the ancients understandable.
I like to imagine the menu was heavy in grain, olives, fish and wine. Seems the kind that was easy to come by in the region, with its bread and all its olives and wine, not to mention those fishermen among the apostles.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 04-22-2002).]
- mrdutton - 05-05-2002
Did any of you look at the painting and just see what was on the table?
- barnesy - 05-06-2002
If the dude's that wrote the bible didn't know or care (being only a few generations removed), how is DaVinci going to know being 15 centuries removed. Unless you're of the Mel Brooks school of history.
Its good to be da King
Barnesy