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+--- Thread: firm tannins, silky tannins, racy tannins....? (/thread-15919.html)
- quijote - 04-04-2003
I've been reading a lot of tasting notes lately, as I'm trying to develop more of a framework of what to look (or taste/smell) for when I sample wines.
Some of the phrases I have seen a lot (for example, in Suckling's TNs on Bordeaux 2002 in "Wine Spectator") are "firm tannins" and "silky tannins." I have also seen "racy tannins."
Now, so far, I have been associating "silky" with "smooth" and therefore "fewer" tannins. For example, the phrase "silky tannins" seems about right (to me) for describing tannins in the 2000 Bogle Merlot.
But a problem that complicates this is the use in some TNs of "silky tannins" for "full-bodied" wines. From what Andrea Immer seems to say, "full-bodied" seems to mean more tannins. So what are "silky" tannins in a full-bodied wine?
Does "full-bodied" for Suckling's purposes mean "high alcohol"? Is there a way to tell in tasting notes if this phrase is used for high tannins or for high alcohol?
And what are "racy tannins"? From what I understand (not much), tannins don't have flavor per se....right? Wrong? So how can they be racy?
Thank you for helping me with this.
-Q
- Thomas - 04-04-2003
Can't speak either for Suckling or for Immer, but for me, "silky tannin" (a term I never use) sounds like the wine has integrated its tannins with its fruit, alcohol and body to become in "balance," which is a term I often use.
Since tannic acid is scratchy , biting, et al--but hardly silky. And when a wine ages the tannic acid does not fade away (where would it go?), it melds and integrates so the impression of it is softer, perhaps silky.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 04-04-2003).]
- ShortWiner - 04-04-2003
One tannin qualifier that I understand is "fine" or "fine-grained." A really young, tannic wine can have tannins that give the impression of gravel on the tongue; when they're in balance, it's more like soft fur.
"Sweet" is one I have yet to comprehend.
- Bucko - 04-04-2003
Tannins ripen just like other components of the grape. Grapes picked too green give green, harsh, chewy tannins that are unpleasant. Ripe tannins that are overextracted are also chewy and harsh. The art is balancing ripeness with extraction. There are also other techniques used to soften tannins, e.g. microoxygenation for one (I think).
Racy tannins is someone looking for a new word for their proise.
- stevebody - 04-04-2003
Don't get too involved in trying to understand what some wine writer meant when describing tannins. As Bucko says, writers get bored and start employing new and possibly weird adjectives. All these terms simply describe various stages of the evolution of the tannic acids. "Firm" will be a young, green tannin, just extracted from stems and seeds and unripe. "Sweet" describes tannins that have enough ripeness to balance with the fruit flavors without losing their structure altogether, coupled with a lower level of citric acid. "Racy", as I understand it, means a prominent impression of the tannin and citric acids that create a tanginess more or less balanced by fruit so that the wine tastes "zesty" or "bright".
As wine ages, like Bucko says, the tannins ripen and, like all ripe things, soften and lose their bite. The tannic "melding" is at the heart of why people shell out fabulous Bux for Bordeaux, betting that the nearly always stiff tannins will eventually mellow into something "silky" and wonderful. Don't take this to mean anything bad about tannins, though. Without them, wines taste soft and flabby and just lay there in your mouth or they're so sharp they'll take the enamel off your teeth. Wine needs tannins, acids, fruit, and mineral/"terroir" components. Balance in wine is the name of the game.
- Thomas - 04-05-2003
I should have also said in my post that oxygen has a way of chemically altering the sensation of tannins and other components. The activity we know of as "aging" is much guided by oxidation.
As for the post about citric acid--three predominant measurable acids in grapes include: tartaric, mallic, and tannic (citric is of little consequence, but it is sometimes added to wine on the Left Coast).
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 04-05-2003).]
- Kcwhippet - 04-05-2003
Of course, if you really want to tame those unruly tannins, you can get a Perfect Sommelier. Rememeber that little gem?
- quijote - 04-06-2003
These responses have helped a great deal, and I'm understanding that the more I taste wine and read tasting notes, the better I will understand the terms as used by different people. I guess I have to keep in mind that the process of description is just an approximation, because different people have different sensations, and one of the wonderful things about wine (like all great works of art!) is its ultimately elusive nature. It's nice to be able to read these posts and other commentaries, and then finally have something kick in--sort of like a dummy slap of the senses. Thanks again!
- Thomas - 04-06-2003
Just remember that there are technical reasons for many of the sensations and tastes, but that is not the main concern of the taster. Do you like it; do you learn from it; do you want to continue with it? Answer those three questions and your evaluations will have personal meaning, which is really all a wine drinker needs.
Also, when someone gives you a seeming technical answer, don't just accept it--look it up. Some "experts" think they know the answers to technical questions without ever having studied the technical end of winemaking.
- Kcwhippet - 04-06-2003
Hear, hear, Foodie. Your last sentence is spot on.