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+--- Thread: Different Tongues - Power of Suggestion (/thread-15837.html)
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- n144mann - 03-24-1999
Foodie, I understand you point, because that happened to me, I can say that I thought twice about buying another one recommended by that person, but it didn't stop me from buying another bottle of wine. When you are a beginning novice, it all comes down to who to trust....the wine number guys??? the retailer who is out to make a buck selling you just about anything he can??? joe blow off the wine board??? or slim jim down the street?? I personally turned to my retailer, because I knew Doug had been in the business for 23 years and he has never steered me wrong, ( we have similar tastes) but not everyone has that option. That novice in my opinion, walking into that store and just picking off the shelf has just as good a chance of getting something they don't like as if they had picked a number guys wine. I was in a wine shop the other day where I knew more than the staff working......I know SCARY thought!! He would have been no help to a brand new wine buyer?? No way! They number guys would have been a better bet. I don't think the numbers should ever replace help by an experienced staff person, but when those are not there?? I think they have a place.
Nancy
- IVYCHEF - 03-25-1999
Getting into this conversation a bit late but here is my point OH 2 on the subject.
I rarely pay attention to numerical ratings for myself. I am more interested in the printed descriptors. It takes some time to determine which publication(s) match your palate. But if the WS, WA, WE, etc. rate a wine 100 and it costs $1, its no "great find" to me if the descriptor reads heavily oaked, brett, tar, (and a few others)as those are characteristics I don't particularly enjoy in wine.
And this is why I quit with numbers. Back in '93(?), a friend of mine was raving about 1989 Preston Syrah-Sirah. I tried it and while not as wild about it as she, it was pretty tasty. Went through the first case fairly quick, the second almost as fast. I'm wondering why the dist. has so much of this. He can't move it...the WS gave it a 78!!! About a year later a ton of this is sitting at a local retailer for $9.99 a pop in the clearance section. Needless to say, I still have 2 bottles left and the last time I tried it, it was still darn tasty. 78?? not a chance. 88 more like it.
I'm leary of all the 90+ wines there are of late. Are wine makers and vintages that good or is something else going on??? Inquiring wino wants to know [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Kevin
- Jerry D Mead - 03-25-1999
Just for you guys..here's an advance tip on my first 100 point wine of the year...haven't published it anywhere yet. So rush and out and try it, and then come back and tell me it should only have received a 98.
Louis Martini 1996 "Sonoma" Gnarly Vines Zinfandel ($35) From 115 year old vines...dry farmed...head pruned. Huge, ripe berry and plum fruit...spicy with some latent black pepper. Not overripe. No prunes! No raisins! Elegant structure...very long extremely delicious finish that makes you want to consume larger quantities than you should. I had it with a simple grilled double cut lamb chop rubbed with garlic, thyme and a little black pepper. Fantastic. Rating: 100/85
First number rates quality; second number rates value. I don't buy a lot of $35 a bottle wine, but I would pop for this puppy.
- n144mann - 03-25-1999
Kevin you made a good point, you don't play the number game for YOURSELF, because you understand the descriptors. What about a novice who doesn't know what tarr, cassis, or "cat pee" in a descriptor mean??? I still think the numbers have some value. I am not saying they are perfect, not at all! My point was simply that they have their place.
Nancy
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 03-25-99).]
- IVYCHEF - 03-25-1999
WC - thanks for the "100 point tip" [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Nancy,
I, too, at one time, played a lot "by the numbers". In '93 I would have considered myself a novice but the incident with the Syrah-Sirah turned me 180: I probably would have never tried this wine if I knew the "mighty WS" gave it a 78. There is nothing wrong with numbers as long as you are trying to train your palate in the meantime, which it sounds like you are [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] But to ignore a such wines as Bucko's forementioned Forest Glen Sangiovese because it was rated a 85 is a mistake in my book...I tend to think its a "little" bit better than that. I'm not saying to ignore them completely as they do, for the most part, help project the quality of the wine. But be advised and aware that numbers can be misleading on their own. Another example of this that jumps to mind is the 1990 Pichon Lalande. WS rated it 97 on release and has since revised it to 94, Parker rated it a 79. Who do you believe if you play it strictly by the numbers [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] FWIW, the last time I tried it 2? years ago I thought it was much closer to WS than Parker.
And apparently, I like cat pee (as disgustion as it sounds)as there are very few NZ Sauv. Blancs I don't like. I have little clue to what "they" are referring to, either [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img], so don't feel bad. Some say its synonymous with gooseberries, which I'm very familiar with and like...(but is it the green gooseberry or the elusive purple gooseberry...yes, there IS such a thing! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img])
Kevin
[This message has been edited by IVYCHEF (edited 03-25-99).]
- n144mann - 03-25-1999
I agree the numbers ARE misleading sometimes, and I was fortunate to have someone I trust tell me that right away!! And as for the cat pee thing, I must like it also, because I like the NZ SB's too! I usually will try a wine no matter what it is rated, esp if it is recommended by someone I know and trust.
As for training my palate....I am trying!!! Some of those descriptors are really illusive for me, but I know if I keep at it, it will come.
I looked in my cellar.....right now, only have two wines that I know the ratings for. (recommendations of Curmy) I have been relying on my retailer and friends and you guys for ideas on new wines and then just experimenting with whatever sound interesting to me.
[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 03-25-99).]
- Randy Caparoso - 03-26-1999
For what it's worth, here's my take on numbered scores: Never used them, since I personally hate math, and so I just can't see the relation between something pleasurable and numbers of any sorty.
It's also because I got "into" wine (mid-'70s) a few years before the 100 point ratings got started. In those days, of course, there was the UC-Davis/Harry Waugh school which favored the 20 point system. Couldn't get behind that either (even though I taught it in wine classes).
But of course, I read the Spectator, and I subscribe to Tanzer (I much prefer his lingo to Parker's). As a professional I confess to using the ratings to track down interesting buys (you can't rely just on word of mouth!), and sometimes to confirm my own notes.
But because I'm in the restaurant business, I learned long ago that it's best to rely on discriptions, not the scores, to make actual decisions. I look for words alluding to texture (smooth, silk, velvet, long, crisp, etc.) and any interesting aromatics. If something sounds good, I'll get a hold of a sample, or else just buy one case to "experiment" (equal, I guess, to a normal consumer who buys just 1 bottle). But there's no way I would make large purchases without first checking with my own palate, or that of my immediate customers!
Because I've also written professionally about wine since 1981, I know that there's no way any writer can hold the keys for all people. I happen to think I'm a little better at it because I can also judge my own recommendations by the responses of hundreds of my restaurant guests (and I've had my share of failures). So take it from me -- every writer's notes and/or scores is a crap shoot. The only palate you can rely upon is your own!
By the way, thanks for the lead on the Gnarly Martini, Curmudgeon!