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Wine, what are saving it for? - Printable Version

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- Thomas - 03-27-1999

I fully agree with the curm on this, (JM, we gotta stop agreeing so much).
I talked with Gillespie way back, and as soon as he told me that price is not a factor in the new campaign, I turned off the channel. They talk about not bringing new consumers in, but getting present consumers to drink more. As if price has nothing to do withe either scenario, they intend to ignore it.
The Bozelle people, the ones who created the "Got Milk" and "Other White Meat" commercials, came up with "Wine, What Are You Saving It For?" I am afraid everyone isn't going to like the answer to that question.
Test markets on the slogan and a campaign to see if people remember the slogan (i.e. focus groups) are being done in Albany, NY and (I beleive) Houston, Tx.
Lots of money will be spent, or should I say mis-spent.
Incidentally, Amshih makes one of the best points about wine I have ever read or heard -- until it is taken less seriously in America, it will remain less consumed.


- n144mann - 03-27-1999

Well foodie, now the slogan makes more sense....I was looking at the slogan as targeting the new non-drinker and thinking....they are not saving, they are not even buying it!! I agree with the comments made about taking wine less seriously.... hence the suggestion about PB&J it was the least sophisticated thing that came to mind.

As to Randy's comments about Gina's ads, they really didn't grab me at all or make any difference in my opinions. It is just another face on the screen saying that their stuff is the best and you should buy it. Now when an owner/winemaker makes the effort to come and promote their stuff at my local retailer (esp out here in the boonies) and signs bottles etc. that makes an impression on me! It is then that they become a real person.

Price is an issue for me, but not sure it needs to be in the forefront of the ad campaign. (Except to remove the idea that only expensive wines are good wines. Need to promote the value wine idea.) There are lots of non-wine drinking people here, who have plenty of free money that they could spend on wine if they chose. The need is to get them interested, so they will spend the $$$. The biggest arguement I get from non wine friends is...I tried it and don't like it. Well they had box/jug wine. If they still say it after tasting some better wines, I find it hard to argue with, since it is my arguement for not drinking the Gentleman Jack my hubbie is so fond of. But I am rambling so...


Thanks for taking this to a new folder....other one was taking too long to load!! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]


- Randy Caparoso - 03-27-1999

Okay, foodie, let me try to puzzle this out out loud:

1. You agree (we all agree) that until wine is taken less seriously, it will remain less consumed.

2. When look at the "What Are You Saving It For?" campaign, the only thing I'm thinking is that wine is for drinking -- not for saving, i.e. taking seriously.

3. Is this not a good message?

Like I said, it's as good as anything I've heard in respect to communicating exclusively to the occasional or even non-drinking potential wine drinkers. It basically tells them that, hey, if people in the industry don't believe you need to know a lot about wine just to enjoy it, what's the hangup? Maybe trying to communicate to these people will ultimately prove to be a waste of money. But as a businessman with a vested interest in seeing more wine consumption, I think right now, as they say, it's better than nut'n.

Re: Gina Gallo. Well, for me personally the new ad program definitely does not make me want to rush out and buy Gallo wines. My point was simply that for the average consumer who just can't see what the excitment about wine is all about, seeing a younger person who respects her family's traditions and who gets personal satisfaction in her work just might make for a convincing argument that wine is... okay. Maybe even "kewl." Whether or not Gallo is what you actually end up buying, the projection of this attitude is, to me, nothing but "a good thing." Move over,Martha!


- n144mann - 03-27-1999

Ok Randy, I'm going to partially agree with you because the slogan makes a lot more sense once I understood the target audience.

But I still don't think it will be a big seller to those who are not already wine drinkers. If you know nothing about wine, the idea of saving wine is foreign to you, and makes no sense. You might be thinking okay, I'm supposed to drink it not save it.....but tell me why I am supposed to buy it in the first place??? Why should I consider drinking it??

But since it is whats out there.....guess I gotta agree with ya'll.....hope it works.

Nancy



[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 03-27-99).]


- Randy Caparoso - 03-27-1999

I guess it's leap of faith, Nancy. You're also right. If dey ain't drinking it now, what do they have to save? However, you just have to assume that non-drinkers know that connoisseurs save their wine (like we know squirrels save nuts), but that (the message goes) connoisseurs don't have a monopoly on the enjoyment of it.


- Thomas - 03-28-1999

So guys, those who don't drink wine now "might" get the message (although I doubt it).

The ad campaign's goal is NOT to talk to those who do not drink wine, but to talk to those who already do drink wine -- that is how it was laid out to me. They say the plan is to get present wine consumers to drink more, and that it would be costly to try to get non wine drinkers to drink wine. That is what I was told!

On the price issue, I do not think the ads have to say much about price, except that wine is affordable. The problem is, according to what I was told, tha Wine Council believes that $10 a day for a bottle of wine is affordable to its audience for the ads. That sounds to me like the non wine drinkers are not being addressed. I wonder if the visuals they use for the ads will be lifestyle visuals that do not address the non wine drinkers.


- Thomas - 03-28-1999

Actually, the $10 price was their absolute minimum -- $10 - $15, I believe was the target.


- n144mann - 03-29-1999

foodie, what price point do you think they need to stress in order to get the non wine drinking public interested?? Those friends of mine that don't drink wine don't drink anything at all except soda. I don't see wine ever getting that cheap. Equal to the price of beer?? Just curious what you are thinking here.

I don't think the $10 price point for those already drinking is too bad. Here it is hard to find a nice wine under that. There are a few in the $8-$10 range, but nothing lower till you get into the jug wine arena. The occasional sale not included...


- MikeE - 03-29-1999

I agree with n144mann... even at $8-$10 per bottle, the tradeoff for the average US family just isn't there. At 3 bottles ber week (assuming they drink half a bottle per night and they go out once a week), that's $24-$30 per week. The tradeoff against soda, beer, milk, ice tea, etc. is a tough one to justify for middle America, supposedly the folks who aren't drinking wine already.

I'm not sure that the "what are you saving it for" campaign will resonate with those folks, but then hey, I'm a finance barney, so what do I know about marketing?

FWIW,
ME


- Kcwhippet - 03-29-1999

If price is the big issue, why not push a lot of the wines out there that are under the $10 mark? There are quite a few very good (I think) wines out there that qualify. The Cline Cotes D'Oakley Vin Rouge and Vin Blanc at $6.99, and the Stracali Chianti at $5.29 come to mind. If they want to get new consumers on board, why not push the good values out there and then wean them to higher priced wines? Two months ago, I met a gentleman at a local wine shop who's going on a buying trip to Napa. He's recently come into a lot of money (lottery) and wants only the best - so if it costs less than $50, he won't buy it, and he wants to drink it NOW. He plans on going to Phelps and bringing back some 3L Insignia. I asked why since it should sit down for 15-20 years. He thought all wine should be drunk on release, because nobody ever told him otherwise. In the past 6 months, he's built a cellar of Screaming Eagle, Colgin, Insignia Opus One, etc. (almost 500 bottles) because it's the best, but he's received no education on why. Now he wants to learn. I think new consumers should be targeted with lower priced, but good quality wines, and simultaneously educated on what good wines really are. It's simple marketing. Sell a non-educated consumer on a good product at a price he(she) won't choke on. Then when they're hooked (for lack of a better word), make them aware of all the other great products at somewhat higher prices, and teach them about the product while you're at it. That will work for almost any product - why not wine?

Bob


- amshih - 03-29-1999

Lots of good points here, although I personally don't think price is the only issue. I think image has a lot to do with the problem as well, and that, coupled with the notion that a wine must be expensive to be good, is enough to scare most people off into their beer cans.

You don't have to look any farther than the magazine rack -- look at the typical wine mag. It reads like Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous and isn't much fun to read for the average person (or even the average wino). I'm sort of in WS's target market (read "higher tax bracket" -- but I'm under 30) and I *still* think WS is a turn-off!

We can each do our part by searching out and offering decent wines under $10 to our friends in a non-snooty atmosphere. I open a bottle any chance I get, even if my friends protest and say "Gee, I don't know anything about wine..." My response: "Do you know anything about Coke? No? That doesn't keep you from drinking it, right?"

Sorry...wine marketing (or the lack thereof) is a topic that just makes me start ranting!


- n144mann - 03-29-1999

Amshih and Bob, I agree with both of you!! Bob, I stand corrected...I have seen the Cline wine you speak of for sale here in our wine stores for 6.99, so there are worthy wines under the $8 mark.

Amshih I am not as young as you, but I am under the 35 marker, college educated,hubbie is a PhD,probably not in the target financial group YET, but the potential is there. (They abuse you for years before they give you the big bucks in the medical research field) That said...I find that I have trouble relating to the wine mags also.


So we all agree....need to focus on the VALUE wines...need to remove the "wine snob" image while promoting a more fun loving easy going attitude in its place.


Well there we go, who needs a marketing firm....they should just ask us!! [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by n144mann (edited 03-29-99).]


- Thomas - 03-30-1999

Nancy,

Who needs a marketing firm? The Wine Council; that is why they hired one.

I am not advocating that price is the only issue. I am saying that by not taking price into consideration, the ad campaign bypasses a major need. But then, they specifically want to bypass the need, according to what John Gillespie told me. The campaign is directed toward those who already drink wine at least once a week. Their aim is to increase the frequency -- end of story. They discount ever being able to woo the non wine drinkers, which means they abandon them.

Just yesterday I got a Wine Institute press release that talks of premium domestic wine sales on the rise, generic sales on the wane. Fine for now, but are they thinking about who will buy wine after us boomers and yuppies die? If they aren't bringing new wine drinkers in, then they won't have any left when we cash out.

Nancy, under $8 a bottle brings a fair amount of interest -- $6 even more interest; that is the generic market, which is failing and apparently being abandoned. Funny thing is that while California generics are failing, European varietals (Pay D'oc, et al) in the $6 to $7 range are doing well. See a pattern, anyone?


- winoweenie - 03-30-1999

It really is interesting the amount of diverse opinions that have been generated on the subject. Personally I feel all of the solutions have a great amount of merit and would all work to some degree toward the problem. Has anyone contacted Taco Bell to see if we can put a little Zin in the Dogs water bowl to accompany the Burritos ?


- amshih - 03-30-1999

Foodie -- great point about the boomers/yuppies cashing out. Too bad most people in the wine industry just don't get it! Listening to the wine industry speak, you'd think that baby boomers were the only market out there. Case in point -- a quote in the San Francisco Weekly from a wine retailer, "Concentrating on the 20-35 age group is beating your head against the wall. Let's face it, Gen-X numbers are not as large as baby boomer numbers. The 40-55 age group has more money, and they already know what beer tastes like."

With attitudes like this, I know that I would have given up on wine years ago if I didn't love it so much....


- n144mann - 03-30-1999

Yes I agree, the wine industry is being really short-sighted here!! I know it is easier to make a buck targeting the market that is already there, but sooner or later you need to address the issue of bringing people in.


I did not mean to say that the $6-$8 dollar market didn't generate interest. A good wine in that price range always gets MY interest. My statement was that "I" have a hard time getting them...for what ever reason the wines you are buying for $6.99 I am paying $8.99 for. don't know who to blame....lack of competition, retailer, wholesaler, state and city taxes????? Anyway, I do find that the wines in that range that I do buy are not from the US, but from South America and Europe, and sometimes will find an Aussie wine that is good in that range. My buying patterns would support the statement you presented.

Nancy


- Jason - 03-30-1999

Some small orginizations are already gunning for the gen X crowd, but I don't worry about bringing us punks in as a group. The boomers were not drinking anything great for beer in their 20's. Now we have micro brews and are already cultivating an environment where fine wine is a relatively small step up.
We took the boomers from Bud to Cab very quickly. It will be an easier transition for the next generation.
America does not have a wine culture, but it is changing. Today's 25 year olds grew up seeing their parents drink wine, and had a decent selection by the glass in restaurants. The boomers had neither of these. I feel my age group will eventually be even more into wine than the boomers are now.It just takes time.


- n144mann - 03-30-1999

Well Jason, I hope you are right. I have a lot of friends in the 22-27 age group because of the graduate school here, so these are well educated, well financed gen-x's, many of them from Europe. What I don't see are many of them drinking wine. It is beer and the hard ciders. Guess time will tell.


- Thomas - 03-30-1999

My understanding is that even in Europe -- in France and Italy, of all places -- the younger generation turns away from wine. France is losing wine drinkers by the minute, which bodes well for those of us here who need to find decent bargains.

I suppose, being a 50 plus person, I should say "who cares" and go along drinking what I like and can afford, but having been a wine salesman and producer, I can't break the habit of trying to get more people to drink wine.

And let's not forget that while we talk of bringing in new wine drinkers, the government and the neo-drys are out there plugging away at closing all the entry passages.


- Randy Caparoso - 03-31-1999

Well, folks, Jason probably hit the reason on the head why Xers are slower to embrace fine wine (re $8+ range products): they have a lot more choices! Boomers didn't have the wealth of microbrews, ciders, or even variations of lower priced wine to choose from. Remember? -- it was either jug wines, Lambrusco, Miller or Anheuser Busch products! Would we had been so quick to jump into premium wine if we had these choices? I'm not so sure...

Good point about the Europeans, foodie. But it seems strange, when you think of it, that less wine is being consumed up there in the Continent, but there are much larger numbers of craftsmen and more "enlightened" growers than, say, 20-30 years ago. So like it or not, the trend is towards finer wines; along with the flipside of this development, pricier wines in smaller quantities. Frankly, I prefer the recent development. Sure was a lot of schlock out on the market when I first got into wine (mid-'70s).

So at least when Gen X finally gets into the swing of things (just wait 'til wine becomes "in"!), they'll be a lot more sophisticated about it than we were. Scary, huh?