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+--- Thread: dumb waiters (/thread-1354.html)
- redsauced - 03-18-2006
Now, I'm no snob, just trying to learn about wine and practice when I can. On my anniversary I went to a local restaurant that features Duck (2 ways). I was looking forward to pairing with my last bottle of Blackjack Ranch Maximus Syrah. I also brought along 750ml bottle of German reisling for the starter courses. Our waiter arrived and I suggested decanting the big Syrah. He looked puzzled and replied, "can the Syrah?" Now, this is a 4 ot 5 star place, so I asked for the sommelier. The waiter says, "do you want the manager?" He then takes the Syrah off the table and heads for the kitchen. I had to chase him across the room to keep my wine from God knows where. This comedy of errors continued for a while. We finally got up and walked out. In the parking lot I phoned and ordered the roasted Duck to go, went home popped the Syrah, waited 20 minutes , and we had our feast. Has anyone noticed that good wait staff in nice places are hard to find these days? Anyway the Duck with the Blackjack Syrah was FANTASTIC. At least I didn't have to cook it myself.
- Bucko - 03-18-2006
No, it wasn't a dumb waiter -- it was ineffective management. Restaurants often do not give wine servers the least bit of education.
They want to make sure they get your dollar for the wine service, yet they do no training to actually insure you get said service. It is shameful.
- Innkeeper - 03-18-2006
When we first moved to Searsport back in '88 we went to one of the better restaurants in nearby Bucksport. The waitstaff spent much more time selling us a $2.50 dessert than a $12 bottle of wine (remember this was almost 20 years ago!). I filled out the comment sheet offering to train the staff on wine service for free. No answer. Two weeks later we repeating the whole process. No answer. I called and asked the owner why he didn't respond. He said his customers were beer drinkers, and didn't want his staff trained on the clock. Ten years later we went back, an lo and behold wineservice was top priority. Amazing. He could have had it ten years earlier.
- redsauced - 03-18-2006
In a related topic, what do you guys think about offering the waiter, or sommelier a taste. The few that appreciate what you bring seem to enjoy the chance, and I find that sometimes the corkage fee goes away. Is there an offical custom here? I've heard it's at least polite to offer. And is it bad form to bring a wine that is on the list? You can't always check a website beforehand.
Thanks for the insight.
dave
- winoweenie - 03-18-2006
Hi RS and welcome to the board. NO....It's not only Not bad to offer a taste to either the waiter or Sommelier but is in very good taste to do so. I'm sure the only reason I have entry into many of my haunts is the wait-staff is looking forward to expanding their tasting expperience. Either that or they love looking at me bootiful CB. WW [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
- Bucko - 03-18-2006
Most places will not open your bottle if it is on their list. What really irritates me is if they don't want to open an old bottle of the same wine they have on their list.
I went to a Tacoma restaurant once with an '83 Hermitage. They had the '97 on their list and did not want to open my '83. I let my feet do the talking, and I have never returned.
- AzWino - 03-20-2006
Wow, what a topic and what a continuing problem in the restaurant industry.
I do agree with most of what was said. Yes it is poor training and poor management when servers are not aware of wine terms or proper wine service.
I agree that wine training is very important in this day and age when wine drinkers now out pace beer drinkers and the consumer is becoming more knowledgable about wine.
In defense of the server, he may have been new to the restaurant and not fully trrained yet, he may have been having a rough night or may not have even heard you properly over the noise of the restaurant.
What I would recommend in the future if you have this problem and no sommelier is available, ask for the management or ask if there is a more wine seasoned server avilable.
In the restaurant I manage (casual-fine dining) we do not have a sommelier on staff, but have many well seasoned veterns of the restaurant industry and myself am always happy to help the guest. Now I will admit that our day lunch staff is not as well versed in wines, but we do try to have at least one wine training a month.
What you may want to do in the future also is when you make your reservation, request that they seat you with the best server on staff and that you will have many questions pertaining to wine. Not only will you get great service, you will get a server that is excited to talk to you and will bend over to assist you with your needs.
Will stop rambling now as I could go on and on about the restaurant industy both it's week points and it strong ones, but I won't.
Thanks for listening!!
Good Luck, Good Drinking and Cheers!
Arizona Wino
Restaurant Manager
in lil ole Prescott, Arizona
- wondersofwine - 03-20-2006
The Earle Restaurant in Ann Arbor, MI is justly noted for its wine list. The one time I've dined there (I believe duck was my entree there also) I was dining alone and I ordered a half-bottle of a Nuits St. Georges
Premier Cru (red Burgundy). Since I was driving back to my motel, I decided to stop drinking with about a glass left in the bottle. I told the waitress that perhaps the Sommelier or someone would like to finish it off and beaming she said something like "He'll be thrilled!" It was a very enjoyable dinner and I hope the nice Burgundy provided enjoyment to the Sommelier or waitstaff or whoever finished off the bottle.
Also, one time was pre-planning a group visit to a favorite restaurant in Carmel, CA (ended up not going to the conference in Monterey so the restaurant visit was canceled well in advance of the suggested date). I asked about corkage if I brought one bottle of wine and ordered one of their list. They e-mailed back that corkage for one bottle was free if I ordered one from their list (and joked about reduced corkage if I gave the waiter a taste and free if I gave him a full glass). I had planned to offer a taste to the waiter at our table and perhaps to the Sommelier and chef also if they were interested.
[This message has been edited by wondersofwine (edited 03-20-2006).]
- jv38 - 03-20-2006
On my last year cruise, my cousin and I decided to take our own wine. We packed around 12 bottles for 7 days.
Most of the time the waiters felt so bad about charging the corkage fee that they just "looked the other way".
Most of the waiters knew their wine, but were not into one except for one or two which actually asked about the wines that we had therefore earn a taste.
Looks to me Sommeliers on Cruise ships are rare or relegated to behind the scene or VIP task. Only once I have talked to a Sommelier, and looking back I think I now have more knowledge that this person has at that moment.
This was my first BYOW experience and went so well that I will do the same on my next cruise.
- redsauced - 03-20-2006
AW, thanks for the helpful hints. However, when dining at a "high end" or 4 or 5 star establishment the staff should be trained, or they should park cars until they are trained. I hate having to ask for the manager in a good restaurant. If the entree is $25.00 or more the wait staff should be part of the package. Intelligent, and even passionate about the food, and the WINE! It's thrill for me when someone in the know, validates a bottle of wine with their approval, has a taste, and we have a brief discussion, and they return to fill my glass when it's empty.
That's service, and wine lovers have a right to this in any expensive restaurant. Train the staff, or get someone out there that knows what's happenning.
dave
dave
- brappy - 03-20-2006
Hey Dave, Parking cars and tasting/drinking wine probably is not a good idea....... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
- redsauced - 03-20-2006
True, which is why when I go tasting/drinking I
always employ the services of My Chauffeur, James. [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
- WileECoyote - 03-26-2006
I had a funny experiance tonight. Not upset by it. Just amused. The girl came over and asked what I wanted to drink. I was in the mood for some bubbly so i ordered the only thing available by glass other than the M&R Asti Spumante. I was the cavas called Freixenet(sp) I told her what I wanted and she said what? So I pointed and she looked puzzled. Then I said and pointed. She looked confused and said, "You know that is Cahmpagne, right?" I looked at her and said politley with a smile, "No, it is acutally a Spanish sparkling wine, and yes I would like that." I gave a wink because I did not want to come off like an butthead. We giggled about and she ran off to get it.
We talked a little later and all was well.
I just thought this was cute.
- TheEngineer - 03-27-2006
WEC,
She might have even confused you a bit by saying its like a "Cahmpagne" [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]...d@mn...its not even listed in The Oxford Companion to Wine.... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/smile.gif[/img]
Cheers!
- winoweenie - 03-27-2006
Not to fear there Engie. Wily just took a refresher couse in tipin'101 from the weeners mail-order diploma mill. WW [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
- Innkeeper - 03-27-2006
Well WEC, did you get a date or not?
- WileECoyote - 03-27-2006
Oops, I have a hillbilly education from West Virginy!
No date. I have a fiance and want to keep this one this time [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
Grammer and Spelling always gets me!
- barnesy - 03-28-2006
I've run into the same problem on the beer end of the world. I sell beer to bars in Portland. Some of my bars have 30 or more tap handles, one place has 100, while most range from 10 to 20 handles. Some of the places don't know the first thing about any of the beers they're pouring.
One of the big services I've been offering to bar managers and owners is beer training. I've written up a simple 4 page beer info sheet with basics about styles corresponding to what they actually have on tap.
A lot of the time, people who own bars don't know anything about beer and that is then translated to their staff. Consequently, I usually go drink where the staff is knowledgable and passionate about the product.
Most places get what they pay for. They hire cheap staff that just isn't interested in being a knowledge sales person, they just take the customers orders.
Barnesy
- redsauced - 03-29-2006
Beer Training was a required course at UCSB. I also did some post grad work at Cal Berkeley. Though I seem to have retained very little of what I "learned."
- barnesy - 03-29-2006
Somewhere I heard that alcohol has some sort of effect on memory...
I also heard that it can make women more attractive...
Barnesy