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+--- Thread: Canadian wines (/thread-13509.html)
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- winer - 08-14-2002
I would like to know if there are many Canadian wines available in the US. I have been to a number of wines stores in various locations (most recently Seattle) and found no Canadian wines at all. I wonder why this is? There are many truly excellent Canadian wines from British Columbia and Ontario, (many have won gold medals at international competitions) but they don't seem to be widely available in the US. Any thoughts?
- winoweenie - 08-15-2002
My guess is the problem is with the exchange rate and the BATF. WW
- hotwine - 08-15-2002
Suspect that old economics term "demand" is a big factor. If U.S. distributors don't see a demand for it among retailers and their customers, they won't buy it for the retailers to peddle. Nobody wants to occupy shelf space with stuff that won't sell. Solution? Create a demand.
- Scoop - 08-15-2002
Strange that there wouldn't be BC wines available at least in Seattle, given the whole idea of Cascadia, not to mention the notion of Pacific Northwest cuisine. One hopes its not old-fashioned protectionism and/or BATF antics. But if the Kiwis and Aussies can take the US market by storm with good quality, interesting wines at (often)reasonable prices --despite the huge distances -- then the Canadian wine industry could probably be doing more to market their wines next door in the US (unless they are all being consumed domestically!).
Cheers,
Scoop
- Thomas - 08-15-2002
Scoop has the answer--aside from a few (very few) large wineries, Canadian wineries are akin to most NY wineries: small, unable either to attract or supply a wider audience than the homefront.
- winer - 08-16-2002
Have any of the (very experienced and sophisticated) readers of this board ever tried any Canadian wines? If so, which ones?
- Thomas - 08-16-2002
Inniskillen (sp), Chateau des Charmes, Marynissan, Pele Island, Vineland Estates, Kontzelmann, Hilldebrand Estates, Cave Springs, and about three more from Ontario whose names escape me. My home on Keuka Lake, in the Finger Lakes, is just over two hours away...
Once went to a world Riesling conference and tasted Rieslings from western Canada, but they did not live up to German, Alsatian and Finger Lakes.
- Innkeeper - 08-16-2002
Have also tried most of those Foodie listed; in Canada. Have never seen Canadian Wine in America.
One thing I have observed in Canada is that things are even more different from provence to provence than they are in the U.S. from state to state. At an upscale restaurant (some of you have heard this before) in Quebec last year, I asked why they only mostly had Ontarian and American wines, and no B.C. and few French wines. Was told it was much easier for them to get American Wine than B.C. or French Wine!
- Bucko - 08-16-2002
Tinhorn Creek from BC has made some lovely Gewurzt, but it is scare as hen's teeth right here in the Seattle area. Go figure, as we are only a few hours drive away. You would think this would be a hot market.
- Thomas - 08-17-2002
Inniskillen is the only Canadian wine prevalent in the NYCity vicinity.
- dananne - 08-17-2002
While wine shopping last night in Atlanta, I ran across 3 Canadian icewines. 2 were from Inskillin (a riesling and a vidal) and the other was from a winery I can't recall (Chateau des Charmes?). The icewines I see regularly, though you really have to look.
- chittychattykathy - 08-18-2002
I have 24 Canadian wines (I believe that's about all that is avail.) in my store, here in the Seattle area.
IMHO & because I have asked this question to many a Canadian winery owner/winemaker...
The reason we do not have more CW is because at this point most of them do not make enough to export (and make the amount of money that can simply be made within Canada).
I've had wines from over 40 Canadian wineries and there are some really great wines being made in Canada. The industry is young, and it's exciting to see it grow, and to taste the wines each vintage as the wineries evolve and the vineyards mature.
- winer - 08-19-2002
Interesting. Thanks to all for their replies. Other than Tinhorn Creek, the specific names mentioned are all from Ontario. Tinhorn Creek is a BC winery.
Innkeeper had a very good point. The restrictions on shipping wines between provinces must be very formidable. For exampe, the number of wines from Ontario that are available here in BC is very limited. I wish I knew more about the restrictions.
Chittychattykathy surprised me (blew me away, actually) when she said she had 24 Canadian wines in her store. The two stores I visited in Seattle had none at all. By the same token, there are virtually no wines from Washington and Oregon that are generally available here in BC. There are some available in the wine specialty stores.
Her point about them not making enough wine to distribute is a very good one too. There are many "cottage" wineries here in BC whose wines are available ONLY at the winery. The provincial Liquor Distribution Branch (which buys and distributes all wines to the government owned liquor stores) has a rule that a winery must manufacture a minimum quantity of a particular wine, such that the wine can be distributed across the entire province, before it will accept the wine. Stupid, I know.
Is the situation the same in the US? All I ever hear about are California wines, but I know that New York state for example has a sizable wine industry. Are wines from across the country generally available? Here is my ignorance showing again - other than California, New York and Washinton/Oregon, what other areas produce wines?
- wondersofwine - 08-19-2002
Every state in the USA has at least one licensed winery now (USA Today ran an article) but some specialize in fermented fruit beverages--elderberry, strawberry, etc.--not from grapes. North Dakota was the last state to license a winery.
Texas has a wine industry, so do Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Missouri, New Mexico, etc. French-American hybrids are common in some Maryland vineyards. I live in North Carolina and we have vineyards from the Biltmore Estate in the west near Asheville to Duplin County in the East. However, I find most of the products only the level of table wine, nothing spectacular.
- Innkeeper - 08-19-2002
There is a huge distribution problem in the USA. The primary problem is not states, but distributors. Not that states are not part of the problem. The number of national and regional distributors in this country has shrunk dramatically in the last decade or two. As a result small wineries, even those in California, have a hard time moving their wines. When the state has severe restrictions, the problem worsens.
Take Pennsylvania for example. There are three or four dozen wineries in the state. Only one is large enough to attract a regional distributor. All wine and hard spirits are sold in state liquor stores. Their shelf space in most places can only handle a handful of locally produced wines. The largest only carries around twelve to eighteen. The state does not allow shipping, other than through distributors, OUT of the state. This leaves better than half of the PA wineries to their own resourses. They hang on by pushing their products on their own sites, and at festivals and other events.
This is true in one way or another for all other states except California, Washington, Oregon, and to a much lesser extent, New York.
Hotwine could tell you a Texas story that Pennsylvania pales before.
[This message has been edited by Innkeeper (edited 08-19-2002).]
- Thomas - 08-19-2002
NY State is the fourth largest wine-producing state in the USA, after CA, WA, and OR.Along with the distribution problems that IK aptly reported, NY suffers from a relative lack of savvy. My store is in NY City (which at last count was still within NY State) but the last order for a NY wine that I placed took over two weeks to get to me, well after the date of the event in which I intended to include the wine.
Many upstate NY wineries carp about not getting respect in NY City, but so many are afraid to send a rep or to make proper arrangements with a distributor (UPS shipments in the summer come hot to the touch). There is one small distributor handling small NY wineries but the company chooses to only sell to restaurants--can't charge retailers (or overcharge) as much as it gets away with at restaurants.
This is extremely frustrating for me, since I am one guy who knows a lot about upstate wines and whose store wants to carry them, but few wineries make an attempt to help me do so.
- winoweenie - 08-19-2002
They are reaping their just desserts IMHO Foodster. Can you imagine Mondavi not having reps in Calif? WW
- Botafogo - 08-19-2002
We have just the opposite problem here, way TOO many layers of overpayed reps sucking up all of your money:
On a recent call in on a talk radio show about how you liked your job the Mondavie rep for Beverly Hills and West Hollywood (one of over 100 such people in the state) called in, identified himself and said "I love my job, all I do is eat in nice restaurants and give away wine on the company's dime". He went on to say his principle responsibility is to ride herd on the actual salesmen of his distributor to make sure they sold his wine instead of what the customers asked for...
I know another guy whose job (at over $70K a year and an unlimited sample budget) is to make sure that if you win a major sporting event you waste a case of HIS industrial Champagne and not the competing ones by spraying it all over the place.
Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 08-19-2002).]
- Auburnwine - 08-21-2002
I weep at the stories of how difficult it is to get wine in other locations.
Imagine a small town in Alabama, a state with the highest tax and certainly some of the most repressive wine laws in the country. And layer on top of that cultural barriers to alcohol and and a very limited population of economically/educationally advantaged people who drink wine (Want to talk about wine as an indicator of class distinctions in the USA?).
Simply to obtain wines that are widely available elsewhere is often impossible here. For whatever reason (the distributor, perhaps?) our little local wine shop cannot even seem to order anything that I request.
But I thoroughly relish trips to real cities, from Vancouver to New York, as opportunities to search for wines. And I am pleased to report that wine resources in Alabama, especially the larger cities and the college towns, ARE improving on a daily basis.
Oh, the ideal would be to be able to get on the Internet and order a case of whatever I pleased. I am not sure, however, that that battle will ever be won.
- Scoop - 08-21-2002
Take heart in War Eagle/Plainsmen/Tiger country: recent court cases, outlined in today's WSJ ("Merlot by Mail: Ordering Wine Online Gets Easier") auger well for freeing the grapes, thereby increasing consumer choice, especially in areas like Auburn.
Cheers,
Scoop