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- Botafogo - 07-24-2001
We had a VERY interesting experience this week: we let five unsuspecting consumers ranging from a 20-something Ad-Grrrrl to a 60-something electrical engineer taste two wines side by side, a VERY famous and expensive Cabernet based wine from Napa and a ten year old Aglianico from Basilicata whose vendor gave it his highest praise when he exclaimed "it smells like ASS!" (as in barnyardy and fecund). We did this in the presence of the winery owner from Napa (but without the consumers being aware of this) and EVERYONE preferred the "rustic", "old style" wine and noted that the fancy Claret was "good" but kind of one dimensional and had too much "fruit" as opposed to "wine". We didn't even tell them that the Aglianico was $12.99 and the Cab WHOLESALED for $40!!!
We think that the people who make and sell wines on a wholesale basis spend WAY too much time talking to restaurant and retail buyers (who don't want to have to work too hard) and not nearly enough time getting a true read on actual consumers. Which led us to this:
"The FUNK-ateers return with a real slice o' life!
Just like George Clinton battling the "R&B Smootherizers" by making the funkiest music on the planet, we are in your corner fighting to bring real wine (not fruit juice) to your table. These are very Old School, know where the One is, get on The Good Foot from the get go and are just plain as funky as they wanna be. Uhhhg! Maceo, hit me one time....Excuse me while I do the Boogaloo.....this stuff makes me feel like a Sex Machine......
Sasso Aglianico del Vulture 1991, Basilicata
Yet another find in our archeological dig at an importer’s warehouse, this is for the “show me the dirt and aged beef†crowd: it’s WINE, not fruit juice! If you are tired of the ongoing trend touting expensive grape juice concentrate as great wine and handing out scores based on the level of fruit concentration rather than the TRANSCENDENCE of fruit into something magical, then you need to try this. We would venture to say that if we let you smell it blindfolded you might have trouble deciding whether the aroma presented to you was coming from a nice piece of aged sausage, a lump of iron rich dirt or a glass of wine (or better yet, a piece of sausage and a lump of iron ore IN a glass of wine). That's a GOOD thing! They don’t call Aglianico “The Barolo of the South†for nothing.....
This sold the wine out (twelve cases) in about 48 hours. No scores, no "gobs and gobs of thick unctuous fruit glazed with sweet vanilla", just the Merde, the Real Merde and nothin but the G-damn Merde! Comments????????? Do you like WINE or fruit juice?
Discuss.........
That ol' shit stirrer Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 07-24-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 07-24-2001).]
- cpurvis - 07-25-2001
Since grapes are fruit, I typically expect to taste some. HOWEVER, I admire the vintners who allow a vintage to do as it will, & personally appreciate flavor variety (e.g. the $3.99 Citra M d'A tar baby a couple months ago).
For example, just returned from another Passport Day tour in the Santa Cruz Mtns. searching out the obscure places. Last stop was Trout Gulch Vineyards, whose belief is "GREAT wine begins in the vineyard," & who don't do much finessing. Tasted 3 pinots: '95, '97, '99. The first was decent but not memorable. The '97 was fruity. But the '99 was out-of-category for me...couldn't define the distinct aroma or the flavors as individual fruity or earthy tastes. Asked the maker & he said "herbal" would be a starting point.
Bottom line: we bought the '99. It needs to be cellared for awhile, but of 20 wines tasted it was the unique, enjoyable, challenge-the-tastebud-boundaries wine for the day.
"Variety, the spice of life"...& the taste of good wine! cp
- winoweenie - 07-25-2001
Boto-funkie, I agree that there's more to wine than hype, fruit, oak, and packaging. I thoroughly think that what you look for to please your palate must be as much of the program as the winemakers and vineyards contribution. When I'm listening to Oscar or Bill I want to lay back and have the pure blessed fruit lay a ground-work for the pleasure I know I'll experience in the music. When I'm at the table, I want a wine that says ' Hi food, let me entertain you ", and when I want to contemplate what I'm drinkin', give me somepin' that makes me think. There's enuf time and graduations of pleasure that them dudes 'kaint be catarogized . WW My gracious, the image of Botofugo as a sex machine sent me begging for a Case of Viagra [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by winoweenie (edited 07-25-2001).]
- Botafogo - 07-25-2001
>>Since grapes are fruit, I typically expect to taste some.<<
In front of me is a great, stinking, reeking, tumenescent chunk of Reggiano cheese (courtesy of a vendor trying in vain to sell some crap Valpolicella) and, while it is made from milk, an uninformed consumer of it would have a hard time making that connection because it TRANSCENDS milk and speaks of Emilia-Romagnan hillsides and thousands of years of history and (in no small degree) of that delicious decay of organic matter into the cosmos....
But then again, it was great with the Peruvian chicken and a nice cold Coke!
Roberto
- Botafogo - 07-25-2001
AND, since my sweetie is A) half my age and B) lives 12,000 miles away, when I get my swerve on there's no stopping it!!!! Hunh! Can I get an Amen from the drummer over theh? Do the Popcorn, get a Cold Sweat and remember, it's a Man's, Man's, Man's world.......but it don't mean nuthin without a woman or a lil girl!
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 07-25-2001).]
- Thomas - 07-26-2001
I'll stay outta dis one cept to ask that if the post above was from ww, how come it was legible; has someone spiked the ole man's milk? From his blatant sexist remarks, I know someone spikes Roberto's, and I do not refer to milk...
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 07-26-2001).]
- Botafogo - 07-26-2001
If quoting Soul Brother # 1 is Sexist in your circles then one needs to hang with a different sort of crowd, yes??? The PC-ificaton of our nation is one reason I intend to move to Brasil where people are not afraid of sex, women celebrate their femininity while remaining independent and shouting the joys of hot monkey love is mandatory for all.....
Com muito saudade, Robertinho
- Botafogo - 07-26-2001
But, Foodie, what this thread is actually about is fruit juice vs wine and I would REALLY like to hear reports from the battle front on your coast on that issue....
- cpurvis - 07-26-2001
Dear mr. sex machine,
>>Since grapes are fruit, I typically expect to taste some.<<
I hope that you noted the use of "typically" in the sentence...grab a random bottle of wine from most regions & you are likely to taste at least a hint of fruit. HOWEVER, I am pleased by surprises to the contrary. Particularly those of the "Hi food, let me entertain you" variety mentioned by WW.
cp
- Thomas - 07-26-2001
Roberto, on this coast the Wine Excpextorant (and other useless rags) are KING, therefore so are over-extracted fruit bombs that make my stomach leap for the nearest ginseng root.
At is-wine we do all we can to promote the concept of "place" and the benefit of pairing wine with FOOD. We do not like wine philosophers either--you know, the kind of people with money plus more opinions than taste buds...
- mrdutton - 07-26-2001
ww lucid? Wuz he on a sabat?
- winoweenie - 07-26-2001
WHA!!! WHER!!!!WHOOOS!!! . culdn' ob been me. I don' bemember postin' nuttin. WW
- barnesy - 07-26-2001
I am up for just about any wine tasting experiance. Even if I don't like it the first time, I will keep revisiting it till I determine that no ammount of trying will change my opinion of it. Didn't like chablis the first time around either...
But that carlo rossi winery makes some darn fine chablis. (ducks and runs for cover)
That last statement could get me banned from this board, couldn't it? [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
I had a very interesting Valpolicello Classico the other night with virtually no fruit flavor. It was still very enjoyable. I am not as good at identifying non fruit flavors, but gotta keep trying them to figure out what they is.
Barnesy
- cpurvis - 07-27-2001
mrd, don't think any of us would accuse WW of bein' "lucid"...just file that comment I prev. noted under 'blind hog finds acorn' [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img] cp
- Thomas - 07-27-2001
And I never said lucid either--I said legible...
- Bucko - 07-29-2001
Not a fair tasting IMHO. People always tend to pick out the unusual, funky, earthy wines if placed against a claret style. Stack that wine up against a funky Beaucastel and I bet the results are different.
PokingTheSkunkBucko
- Botafogo - 07-29-2001
Bucko, if what you said was true (and it would be just like saying "People always prefer Johan Lee Hooker to the Backstreet Boys") then the market would be flooded with earthy funky, actual wine and not thousands of labels of acid manipulated, one dimensional merlot....
Plus the point was a contrast in styles, not an assesment of which was the best expression of that style.
Just the fact, Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 07-29-2001).]
- Bucko - 07-29-2001
Okay, I see your point. That doesn't mean that I don't like poking the skunk..... [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb2/wink.gif[/img]
Bucko
- RAD - 07-29-2001
Roberto--
Just chiming in here to stir up the mud some more. As usual, your post is interesting and provocative. However, there's a flaw in your logic when you state that "...if what you said was true (and it would be just like saying "People always prefer Johan Lee Hooker to the Backstreet Boys") then the market would be flooded with earthy, funky, actual wine and not thousands of labels of acid manipulated, one dimensional merlot..."
The assumption (a fallacious one) upon which this thesis rests is that the consumer en masse is an educated one, and knows what he or she likes. On the contrary: most people know zilch about wine, and buy for a myriad of reasons having nothing to do with taste (another's recommedation, pretty label, price).
Could it be, instead, that a majority of producers are unconcerned about high quality, and are "under the influence" of the herd instinct du jour?
RAD
- Thomas - 07-30-2001
RAD--we AGREE! But (and there always is a but) I wouldn't say that producers are not concerned with quality. Quality is hard to measure without relativity; perhaps we do not like a particular style of wine, but that says nothing about its quality. I dislike over-extracted, over-oaked wines, but the winemakers who produce them might be doing them just right (for that style).
Just like any other business wineries chase the money. And since most Americans are in the dark about wine, the wineries have only to chase the money. What truly makes me angry are the gurus and producers who spend ink and air talking about educating the consumer and then do nothing more than lead the consumer toward one style of wine, at one magnificently high price point.