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+--- Thread: Wine Spectator Bashing (/thread-13265.html)
- hhhanson - 01-09-2003
There have been a few posts lately that indicate some level of favoritism by the mag to certain wines based on advertising. If this is true, it's simply outlandish, especially given the enormous influence this rag carries, really too much influence. When prices fluctuate based on prominently displayed ratings…..from one magazine…..that's really too much. However, being new to the wine thing, I've subscribed to the Spectator for exactly one year now, and while I take all ratings with a grain of salt, AND an understanding that what I like will NOT always be what they like, it has provided invaluable education into the "World" of wine. From better understanding regions, grapes, vintages, restaurants, food, who's who, who's purchased who, etc. etc. etc. I think it does provide a good service. It’s very professional, great photos, well organized, nice & big, and I look forward to every issue, and read it front to back. As I begin to understand wine more, and become less dependent on others for my education I may change, but for now…………I’m forking over another $45 for another year. Which brings me to a question. What are some unbiased magazines, websites, that offer wine ratings?
- leatherman - 01-09-2003
The Wine Advocate is the best. Robert Parker runs this and accepts no advertising. Also, Stephen Tanzer's International Wine Cellar is good (tougher scorer than RP).
The Wine Spectator is good fun reading but I have learned to NEVER, AND I MEAN NEVER trust their scoring when it comes to wines.
- Innkeeper - 01-09-2003
Have subscribed for decades, and sometimes, wonder why. Most of the wine they tout is well beyond my price range. All of the travel articles cover places and properties that would take a month's income to stay in for one night. Do like the news, and "best buys." I tolorate their editorialists more than most folks around here. Still think the "Wine & Spirits" is the best wine magazine.
- Botafogo - 01-09-2003
My favorite Spectator moment of all time is the following Review:
Cascinacastle't Goj Barbera FRIZZANTE (which means sparkling!)
"Amateurish winemaking, strangely effervescent, tasted twice" 61/100
The label says on it that it is sparkling and to serve it chilled but trying to determine the actual goals of the winemaker doesn't seem to be on their agenda.
Roberto
- Drew - 01-09-2003
I subscribe to the Wine Advocate and enjoy it. The Wine Speculator is inconsistant at best and ridiculous at it's worst.
Drew
- hhhanson - 01-09-2003
Would "Full of themselves" acurately describe what I'm hearing?
- hhhanson - 01-09-2003
Also, isn't the Wine Advocate just one guys view? Or does Parker have a panel of judges he uses?
- sharktanq - 01-09-2003
I also subscribe to the Spectator, and have enjoyed my 3 copies so far...I also get Wine Enthusiast, which was a far cry cheaper, and not as "thick" - enjoy them both, but I suppose that's why I got them, to enjoy, and if I actually learn something in the process, great for me...
- Bucko - 01-10-2003
I've subscribed to a host of wine rags over the years, Underground Wine Journal, Conn. Guide to CA Wines, Wine Spectator, Wine Advocate, International Wine Cellar, Decanter........ I now only subscribe to one, Tanzer's IWC. Our palates seem to be in sync and he tastes a lot of Bordeaux and Rhone that I never get to sample.
The bottom line is to find a wine critic who agrees with your palate. I used to like Parker, but now I find him liking wines that are too extracted, too oaky and too tannic for my palate. Different reasons for the other wine mags. Trust your own palate......
There are good palates right here that are worth trying a bottle based on their recs...
- winoweenie - 01-11-2003
I, too like Bucko , like Tanzer. The Underground Wineletter was for years the only mag I paid to read. IMHO John Tilson who started it has one of the best palates I've ever encountered. When John retired I drifted away and started reading Connoisseurs Guide until they too seemed to be too biased in their ratings. The Spectator is, IMHO, a very entertaining travel, food, and destination source that also carries lots of weight in the wine world. Take all of these experts opinions with a box of salt and let your tongue do the walking. WW
- Botafogo - 01-11-2003
Verne, funny you should mention exercise for the tongue, I'm headed for RIO in 36 hours and need to get it in shape (DOH!)......
- Thomas - 01-11-2003
Bucko makes an important comment when he alludes to seeking mags and wine writers who agree with "your" palate. Of course, the only way to know if and when these people do agree with your palate is to read them all and then decide, the way Bucko has.
For my money, I think wine writing in magazines is way too serious, way too "I have the grail" attitude, way too trendy, way too over the top. In my view, there ain't no good unbiased wine periodical, one that simply reports on what is out there and where it can be found without telling us what THE WRITERS think it tastes like on a ridiculously arbitrary numbers rating system, and without them telling us what WE should like and drink.
We need a magazine that is as interactive and open as this wine board. In other words, a Zagat-like rag on wine, from the consumer's point of view, as well as those of us who sell the stuff to consumers.
As for the Wine Advocate: yessir, any magazine written by one person simply is the opinion of one person--completely useless information, in my extremely humble opinion...
- stevebody - 01-13-2003
I've always thought that ging to any of these self-important wine gurus - or magazine tasting panels, for that matter - and expecting objectivity is like going to a whorehouse in search of virtue. Parker has his own, very quirky opinions. I trust him to the extent that I don't believe he's in anyone's pocket but his Francophilia is blatant and tiresome. Tanzer, I think, tries too hard to be a tough sell and short-changes a whole lot of worthy wines. Spectator, I firmly believe, is sold out to the Byzantine interwoven business interests of their owners, American Tobbaco. This helps account for some of the puzzlingly charitable scores they give to conglomerate wineeries like Chateau Ste. Michelle, Beringer, etc.
I've always had a simple formulas and it has very rarely failed me: I find three reviews of any wine I'm not able to taste for myself before buying. I average them out. Two of the reviews are always one of the three I mentioned and the third can be from anywhere, most frequently from the estimable Richard Kinssess who writes for the P-I newspaper here in Seattle. If the scores and texts of the reviews are persuasive, I'll take a flyer. Out of the 200 or so times I've tried it, I've only had two bottles that were complete dogs.
Since I sell wine for a living, I do a lot of trade tastings, so I taste most of what comes into our market. But back when I didn't have that advantage, the system was a great help.
- Kcwhippet - 01-13-2003
SB, What all do you do? You're profile says you're a writer, but at various times you've mentioned pouring wine at your restaurant or selling wine (at a shop?). What's the name of your restaurant or wine shop? Maybe we've heard of it.
- Thomas - 01-13-2003
At my shop, is-wine, we NEVER post a rating on wine, and I NEVER buy anything I and my staff had not tasted and agreed on. (I say never, but I have failed in that policy a few times, and each time I bought something without tasting it, I was disappointed.)
Our aim is for the staff to come to consensus so that we give equal weight to the sale of wine in the shop. We also encourage our customers to talk with us; therefore, we use no shelf talkers, no ratings and no advertising of any sort in the store. We even move the stock around from one shelf space to another often, so that customers do not get into the habit of walking over to their favorite wine and grabbing a bottle of it at the expense of trying one of the new wines we got in.
And, since I believe tasting is all important, we introduce new wines or vintages at our weekly Saturday tastings.
We also keep the stock to a minimum--rarely have like varieties fighting for shelf space. With so much out there, and with a low stock, we appear to be introducing something new every week--actually, we do.
Consumer magazines are like elevator music. When I want vineyard and wine information, I read trade magazines for their orchestration of the news.
[This message has been edited by foodie (edited 01-13-2003).]
- stevebody - 01-13-2003
Whip,
I own a food company back East that operates three shops of our own and consults on eight more. I also sell wine here in Seattle, mostly for fun. Certainly not for money! Foodie will tell you there ain't all that much of that in retail wine! I also write newspaper columns, plays, essays, and, recently, a mystery novel that will be out in '04...we hope!
Foodie,
When I mentioned "buying" in the context of this subject, I was talking about my own personal wine. I would NEVER buy anything for the shop or any of my restaurants that I haven't tasted AND passed by my managers and chefs. I don't even believe in reading reviews for those wines. I have to be pleased to sell it and I can't get pleasure from the printed page! I'd love to know more about your shop. Bet it's dynamite!
- Kcwhippet - 01-13-2003
OK, so I live back east, so where's the shop and what's it called? If your proud of your work and they're good shops, now's the chance for some free advertising. Where are the restaurants and what are their names? We travel out that way every so often (be there in May) and we like to stop in to look up folks we've met here. BTW, we know Foodie's at IS-Wine, Roberto's at Wine Expo, I'm at Sudbury Wine Merchant (we're doing just fine, thank you), Dr. B writes a column for a WA paper and is a regular on Robin Garr's site and there are a few more of us ITB.
- Innkeeper - 01-14-2003
Hey, once upon a time I was in the retail AND the restaurant business too. Of course in those days all the wine in the world came from the mountains north of Teheran.
- Thomas - 01-14-2003
IK, have you been reading someone's book? North of Tehran, indeed...
Stevebody, my wine shop is online:
www.is-wine.com
I am also a writer--handled four columns at once but had to drop a few when I opened the retail shop--loss of time. Look for my article in an upcoming issue of Wines and Vines Mag--March, I think. Am working on a second article for Slow Food Intl. Incidentally, if you are not a member of Slow Food, look into it: www.slowfood.com
I have owned and operated a winery in the Finger Lakes, Cana Vineyards was its name...made the wine and sold it too.