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+--- Thread: A rotten Thursday! (/thread-12707.html)
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- quijote - 03-11-2004
It was devastating to hear about the horrific bombings in and near Madrid, Spain, this morning. Nearly 200 people killed, over a thousand injured...right in the heart of the city. Needed comfort food when I got home, so I had sausage ravioli with an Italian red; ended the meal with some Tio Pepe, a Spanish pastime. *sigh*
- Innkeeper - 03-11-2004
Couldn't agree more. Our hearts go out to all our friends in Espana.
- Bucko - 03-11-2004
Damned cowardly terrorists. May all of their bones bleach in the sun........
- winoweenie - 03-12-2004
Takes a real patriot and he-man to hide a bomb and indescriminately kill innocent men, women and children after they've turned tail and hidden. Anyone who doubts the importance of ridding the earth of these faanatics best start checking under their pews in church.ww
- Thomas - 03-12-2004
ww, it's that last statement you made that rings in my ears--about the pews. It seems every religious fanatic group, Christians included (bomb abortion clinics anyone?), have a lock on truth and justice, not to mention morals--especially when it's time to kill; then, they have expertise too.
- sedhed - 03-12-2004
I remember Spain was a great place for liberty for me when I was in the Navy. The people there were very friendy and the food and wine was great and inexpensive. Sorry to hear this news.
- winoweenie - 03-13-2004
These immoral cowards don't really have a religion or Diety, just an adjenda to obliterate anyone who happens to be unlucky enough to be standing near their latest target.
Pure terriorist guerilla tactics at its' worst. WW
- cheeps - 03-15-2004
Without getting into the right or wrong of the reasons behind the vote - I more than understand their anger and fear - what scares me the most about what happened in Spain is that if this IS al Queda (sp?) and they timed the bombing to coincide with and influence Spain's elections, then they succeeded. Everything I'm reading and hearing is that the current administration was voted out of office because of its support of American and the war in Iraq, and look what the result of that was - we were bombed and our people killed. Won't this just say to the terrorists - we're on the right track, just bomb the right people at the right time and we can influence the outcome of elections and get the results we want? Will they bomb us again this fall right before our elections to try and get Bush voted out of office? I'm not saying the people of Spain were wrong in what they did - but I think they played right into the terrorists' hands. They gave them the outcome they were after. I wasn't too keen on riding the trains to work as it is - now with this my anxiety is even higher than it was before.
Lisa
- Thomas - 03-15-2004
...and from another perspective, everytime the Israelis and Palestinians have an intended peace meeting scheduled a suicide bombing takes place--and what do the Israeli leaders do?; they call off the meeting. Sounds exactly like what the bombers aimed for--calling off peace talks. Damned if you do, damned if you don't respond or react to terrorism.
How the electorate acts, I am afraid, is outside rational thinking. But how leaders act should be rational.
- quijote - 03-15-2004
Most of the voting Spaniards were against Spain joining the U.S.-led alliance in the first place, though before the bombings there were enough voters willing to give the conservative government a chance to carry out its policies. The bombings, however, only galvanized the strong anti-war sentiment in Spain, and convinced enough of the fence-sitters to vote out the conservatives.
I agree that, even though the Spanish people were generally against the war, it's unfortunate to let another power throw the vote via bombing or other strong-arm tactics. But Spanish popular support for the war was weak to begin with; the bombings only consolidated the anti-war resolve.
Interestingly, it seems to me that if such a thing were to happen in the U.S. on the eve of elections, it would reinforce the pro-war sentiment. Just a hunch.
- cheeps - 03-15-2004
quijote - I agree. I think another terrorist attack around election time here in the USA would only increase the likelihood of Bush getting re-elected.
Lisa
- Thomas - 03-15-2004
Unfortunately, I agree on that one. But to ensure matters, I wouldn't be surprised if Osama (remember him?) is produced in October...
- Bucko - 03-15-2004
Do I detect a little cynacism? [img]http://wines.com/ubb2/biggrin.gif[/img]
- willp58 - 03-15-2004
I sure seems like the terrorist scum are playing the Heads of State like a harmonica..
A few days before the elections in Spain they attack - then they get the candidate of their choice..
The Spaniards went to the poles like sheep to a slaughter and the muzzies are grinnin.
- Bucko - 03-15-2004
They must have taken their war training from France -- I see they are pulling out of Iraq.
- quijote - 03-15-2004
Close to 90% of the Spanish people oppose the U.S.-led war in Iraq, so the election results are not necessarily at odds with popular sentiment. One could argue that, if they had voted for the conservatives, they would have done so in a reactionary, sheep-like manner.
It's important to remember that Spain, like many other European countries, lies at the frontier with the Muslim world, and therefore is particularly vulnerable to aggression by Muslim fanatics. The U.S. hasn't yet convinced the people of Spain (and in much of the rest of Europe) that the U.S.-led war on terrorism should be an international war on terrorism. Bad news for the Bush Administration.
- Thomas - 03-16-2004
Bucko--cynicism is right. I hold the opinion that we are all being manipulated, both by terrorists and so-called leaders who exploit the situation.
quijote, you are correct, and let's not forget Spain's history with Arabs (the Moors).
When I visited Southwesten France last October I got a better sense of the French reasons for their attitude. Muslims abound in the countryside--the French have to learn to assimilate them, not antagonize.
One problem with the world is that far too many citizens of far too many countries (including ours) do not travel enough to learn about other cultures and do not have much interest in real (as opposed to television's version of) history.
- wondersofwine - 03-16-2004
Foodie, your last paragraph is so true! Even though I worked for Americans while in Germany, and for the most part lived among Americans (in BOQ quarters at first but later in German appartments) I did travel enough and meet enough Germans and other nationalities to broaden my viewpoint. I'm a different person now due to those experiences. I'm also maybe more security conscious than some because I lived in Germany when the Bader-Meinhof gang (Red Army) were active and was aware of airport security in London due to IRA bombings.
- quijote - 03-16-2004
I couldn't agree more. Even small doses of travel can really broaden and deepen a person's perspective.
And Foodie, what you say about Spain's history with the Moors is right on. Centuries ago, after the Christian reconquest of Iberia from Muslim control, the Spaniards and Portuguese tried to kick out most of the conquered Muslims, with disastrous results. Now, though Muslim immigration is a big issue, there is an attempt to assimilate Muslims instead of marginalize them. Spain is just too geographically and historically close to the Muslims to ignore or expel them.
It's worth noting, too, that southern Spain (Andalusia--closest to Morocco) is one of two regions in Spain where the conservative government suffered a major defeat. (The other region is northern Catalonia.) The conservatives won in Castile and in Galicia, but just barely; the margin was not enough to hand conservatives a victory.
[This message has been edited by quijote (edited 03-16-2004).]
- hotwine - 03-16-2004
The slimeballs responsible for the train bombings must be found and destroyed, simple as that. Now that they have influenced a national election, they will be emboldened and even more dangerous. Those who try to appease them will be most vulnerable. That means that most of Socialist Europe is now at risk. Call it "appeasement", or "accommodation", or "co-existence", or any other euphemism for cowardice, history shows it's inevitably fatal.
As concerns the impact on the President of a withdrawal of the Spanish contingent: that contingent represents less that 1% of the coalition's committed forces; insignificant in the extreme, and Poland has already pledged to make up the difference. Hardly bad news for W.
[This message has been edited by hotwine (edited 03-16-2004).]