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+--- Thread: Has anyone else nearly shot their TV? (/thread-12485.html)
- Woodman - 01-08-1999
Geez, Roberto. You and ENO should get together. Evils of profit, corporate demons and all that......
It's just an ad, I think it's funny, and if it causes people to buy Korbel who would otherwise buy Andre or Cook's, then I say it's a good ad.
And Jerry, my wife and I make a practice of doing just what you did -- walking out of restaurants that don't sell Coca-Cola products. The major cinema chain in Portland just switched over to Pepsi, so we now drive about 5 miles out of our way......
- Botafogo - 01-08-1999
Wood! Where do you get off saying I'm against making a profit??? I am one of the hardest working marketers and (say it loud say it proud) profiteers of quality wines in the country. I just think that lying and manipulating people's fears is in bad taste and that some parts of these ads cross the line of legality when it comes to truth in advertizing.
I have a question about you guy's Coke issue: Have you EVER gone into a restaurant that had a CHOICE of Coke or Pepsi or (for us southerners) RC Cola? I think rarely if at all because the fountain business is one of securing monopolies: If you use OUR equipment you can't sell THEIR products. I had to buy three new refrigerators when we took over this location because Coke owned one and Miller and Bud owned the others and VIOLENTLY objected to us offering a broad selection of cold drinks spread throughout the three LARGE coolers. Now, we sell as little as possible of any of their products, our customers are much happier and we make MORE FILTHY PROFITS!
(for the record) a member of the Pepsi Generation, Roberto
- Jerry D Mead - 01-08-1999
To Roberto...the sugar-water (Pepsi) drinker. I have often posed the question about why not give customers their choice of beverage, and I suspect that a MacDonalds or Burger King would be big enough to pull it off if they wished. (What a great slogan for Burger King..."Have it your way...and have the cola of your choice...Coke, Pepsi or RC!" They'd get my business...I actually enjoy and RC for a change now and then (has a fruity note the others don't)
The "Soda Pop" Curmudgeon
I know about the monopoly angle of providing fountain and cooling equipment, but why is it that convenience stores like 7-11 etc have fountain taps for everything, plus Slurpees...if they can do it, why can'r restaurants?
This is turning into the beverage rant board, what?
JDM
- Botafogo - 01-08-1999
>>The major cinema chain in Portland just switched over to Pepsi, so we now drive about 5 miles out of our way......<<
Wow, I bet those no good commies also show them damn fur-in movies with the writing at the bottom of the screen, drive Volvos and maybe even use Macs! (GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!)
But, seriously, it takes either a corporate takeover by Pepsico or some real cajones to offer a different choice in Coke's "they can drink whatever they want as long as we make it world".
Thirsting for some Antartica Guarana, Roberto
- Woodman - 01-08-1999
Roberto writes <(for us southerners)>. Ahh, now the truth is out. All this time I though you were from Piedmont, and it turns out you're from Sicily.
- phwwine - 01-08-1999
Well, well, I am glad to see that we are all in a good mood and that things never change. Thanks to Mr Stevenson for adding his insightful inf. Roberto, go to Rio and vacation, you need a break from the Holiday selling season<GGGGGGGGGGGGG>
I know I am green with envy that you are
going and I am stuck in snow filled New Jersey.
As to Korbel, oh well, they will attempt to make a killing in the next 1-2 years. As to their quality, I have not had a bottle in years only an occasional taste at someone's party. Not my style and I certainly can't argue with their success over the years.
Phil Ward
- Roberta - 01-08-1999
<<the social anxiety of folks who don't know anything about bubbly but want to make sure they dont'e "do the wrong thing".>>
You don't have a very high opinion of people do you? I like to think that most people can see through a commercial's blantant plug and make their own decision - even about wine. I don't think people believe everything they read and see. Unless it's their own press....
And to hell with "doing the right thing".
[This message has been edited by Roberta (edited 01-08-99).]
- Botafogo - 01-09-1999
Roberta, do you ever have to interview people for jobs? It is SCARY!!!!!!! I get college grads who have no IDEA about ANYTHING, cannot locate Italy on a map, think Jerry Springer is God and get their "news" from MTV.
Have you ever seen the bit on the tonight show where Jay goes out and asks people questions like:
"Is a 'Pancreas' A) a country in Europe, B) a part of your body or C) a new laundry detergent?" or "Who is this guy (showing a picture of the Vice President)?" and more than half of the folks get the wrong answer?
My ex-wife who speaks four languages fluently, can calculate almost any sort of monetary transaction in her head in several currencies (as long as she is the payee!) and can tell you the current and former lovers of every movie star / model / chanteuse on Entertainment Tonight in order from memory had no IDEA that WWII even happened until she somehow stumbled into a screening of "Saving Private Ryan" and she still has no idea what actually happened or who the combatants were.
So, no, I do not have a very high expectation from a large percentage of the American population.
PS: does anyone remember when Gallo's "Bartles and James" characters did a commercial where they said they couldn't deliver the goods cause their truck had broken down and THOUSANDS of people SENT MONEY to them??? The courts ruled that Gallo could keep the money but had to spend it on trucks.
PPS: I dropped out of school in the ninth grade but I read a lot! Roberto
- Roberta - 01-09-1999
<<So, no, I do not have a very high expectation from a large percentage of the American population.>>
That comes across loud and clear.
I work with plenty of people who are as you describe but I stop short of making a blanket statement about "a large percentage of the American population."
And I would argue that "those people" have the ability to make their own choices and don't need to hear from those of us who "know better". It's an unwelcome message and the more you shove the message that they're wrong down their throats, the more they are rooted to their position. If there's no freedom to stay where they are, there's no room to move.
It takes all kind to make this world work. And while I have different interests and abilities as others, I'm sure glad they're there.....well, most of the time and until they get in my way.......
- Botafogo - 01-09-1999
Roberta, I think you are reading me all wrong:
I use words very carefully and while YOU said that I did not have a very high "opinion" of people, I actually said I do not have a very high "expectation" of a large percentage of the general population.
I am always delighted when I am proven wrong and spend most of my life trying to educate folks to think critically about both wine and music and then act accordingly. I _could_ just roll over and sell all the national brands we get asked for but instead we show folks how to get much more quantity and quality for their money. But it never ceases to amaze me when the answer to "Wouldn't you really like something better AND cheaper?" is "No". Or hear someone say "I know it's crap but it's the name, you know." which DIRECTLY relates to wanting to "do the right (conformist, non-creative) thing".
I would also posit that, living in cosmopolitan San Francisco, you are not exposed to as thorough a cross section of the masses as we are here in LA. I am reminded of when, during the 1992 presidential election, I was talking to a German nanny who belonged to the Green Party back home and was so overjoyed that "Jerry Brown is going to be President!". Well, living in Malibu she may have gotten that impression, but I advised her she needed to visit Arizona, Texas and maybe New Jersey before she made any rash assesments of the national mood. Beavis and Butthead are based on actual characters and culture in the American Southwest, you know. And don't even bring up "South Park" (GGG!!!)
If some of what I am saying was not true then why is the whole country up in arms about the educational system, Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 01-09-99).]
- Botafogo - 01-09-1999
>>>And I would argue that "those people" have the ability to make their own choices and don't need to hear from those of us who "know better". It's an unwelcome message and the more you shove the message that they're wrong down their throats, the more they are rooted to their position.<<
Again, this is not what I said or what we do.When I was in grade school (in the sixties) we were taught critical thinking as a subject in the context of a history course: how to evaluate the source, reliablilty and bias of information and make our own decisions about things. This has been chased out of most schools (possibly by religious types???) and the ad weasels have their way with the public.
By teaching folks to deconstuct marketing hype, ad nonsense and such we are not telling them "we know better so you are wrong" we are showing them "you haven't been told the whole story, some people don't want you to know the whole story and here is some more information for you to use in your choices". The big boys do NOT want you to have more info, they want brand loyalty and spend millions to get it by casting small quality producers as "off brands" (a concept we reject outright).
Anyone else got an opionion on any of this, I'm tired of crying alone in the wilderness and am about to cross the River Jordan into the land of Caschacha and Bum-Bums, Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 01-09-99).]
- Ashby Lawson - 01-09-1999
Roberto, You're a musician, right? Ever try to set someone straight with some James Blood Ulmer? Most respond, "Uh...Ya got any George Thorogood?"
Well, its a damn shame, but alot of folks just want to listen or taste those things that admen tell them are safe. Some are more receptive than others, I guess, but how else do you explain the success of Celine Dion, or Korbel?
- Ruthbug - 01-09-1999
<<...and am about to cross the River Jordan...>> - Roberto
**************************************
Instead of crossing it try floating down it.
Tubed down a section above the Galilee. The area is desert but the river, which is more like a moderate size trout stream, provides water for a canopy of thick trees like a tube of jungle. I regret not having brought a wine sack with a crisp sancerre [ I'm sure a well chosen Italian white would have been at least as good]. - Brad
- Roberta - 01-09-1999
<<I would also posit that, living in cosmopolitan San Francisco, you are not exposed to as thorough a cross section of the masses as we are here in LA.>>
I would have said just the opposite but I guess that's a north-south thing. My bottom line is that I don't think it's a big deal that Korbel says it's champagne and I wouldn't want to shoot a TV over it.
And if people want to buy what is safe, then that's their choice and perogative regardless of what we know or think is better. They'll come around in their own time (or not) but we can't force it. All you can do, is what you say you are doing, present other options. And maybe someday, they'll be ready to take the risk.
I have high expectations of people regardless of what they choose to drink. The best bottle of wine is the one that tastes good. That's my bottom line.
- Botafogo - 01-09-1999
>> Ever try to set someone straight with some James Blood Ulmer?<<
Whoah, Duuuuuuuude, Ashby you ARE hip! I actually used to play in a band where we interpolated a manic reading of "Jazz is the Teacher, Funk is the Preacher" into the middle of "Poppa's Got a Brand New Bag".
So bad I gotta step back and kiss m'self, The Hardest Workin Man in Wine Bizness, Coolio dei Vini
- Ashby Lawson - 01-09-1999
<<I actually used to play in a band where we interpolated a manic reading
of "Jazz is the Teacher, Funk is the Preacher" into the middle of
"Poppa's Got a Brand New Bag".>>
...and ya stir in a little "Gotta Get Hit in Your Soul", ya got the unholy trinity of evil geniuses.
And I'm NOT hip. I just hear things...
OBWine: C'mon, Roberto, you can't be too cynical about the buying public if you're selling underdog producers.
- Ashby Lawson - 01-09-1999
(Duplicate post deleted by A.L.)
[This message has been edited by Ashby Lawson (edited 01-09-99).]
- Botafogo - 01-10-1999
>>OBWine: C'mon, Roberto, you can't be too cynical about the buying public if you're selling underdog producers.<<
Like Volvo, Bang & Olafson, Macintosh and other "higher road" marketers, we know that our audience is less than 5% of the general population (people with money and taste plus the brains to use it) but they tend to be fanatical and evangelical about their loyalties. We've had three record years in a row so it must be working.
Ate logo, eu tenho um vôo a sete de amanha, Roberto
[This message has been edited by Botafogo (edited 01-09-99).]
- Botafogo - 01-10-1999
>>My bottom line is that I don't think it's a big deal that Korbel says it's champagne and I wouldn't want to shoot a TV over it. <<
Again, this was not my original bitch, it was over their probably illegal and certainly immoral claim to be the "official Champagne of the Millenium Celebration" and their manipulation of people's need to "fit in".
This parrot is deceased, has commenced decomposition and was a bit high to start with but remember: Goebels and Himmler didn't start by gassing babies, they used advertizing, pageantry and popular culture over the course of many years to manipulate some of the most educated people in the world to turn into monsters. Subscribe to AdBusters Magazine and make your kids read it, it can't hurt, Roberto
- IVYCHEF - 01-10-1999
WOW...a lot of tangents off the main subject here!! Back to the original...I, in most cases, agree with Roberto on this. I'm not so concerned about the clueless masses storming 7-11 and snatching up all the Korbel to be "Advertisingly correct" on 12-31-99. Let 'em...more good stuff left for us. But WHY they would be doing it, is in question...who the hell made Korbel the "official" "champagne" of...? It is promoting something that really isn't true whether a few, some, most, all people just know its bunk. I just think if you are "official" anything, it is a title bestowed upon you, and not self appointed. Guess anybody can just go around slapping creative little adjectives onto themselves without merit or possibility of reproach.
Kevin
OFFICIAL Chef of the New Millennium [img]http://www.wines.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
(Damn, that sounds stupid)